Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I remember, oh 15 years ago a guy I knew had the most beautiful Kingsnake that he called a Patternless Gioni, I have been recently looking for then, and can't seem to find anyone that works with them. Where they a genetic morph? They seem almost impossible to find nowdays, I am curious to learn more about them, but can't seem to find any information about the history of them.

Thanks in advance

David
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Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick

I caught one in 1971, it has long since passed away, hahahahahahaha.

I am sure they are still in captivity somewhere, but your right, you don't tend to hear about them these days. Cheers

To be able to even see one in the wild, I remember seeing truely patternless ones, with no pattern at all, they where truely beautiful snakes. Many of the ones I see labeled "Goini" have pattern to them, But I don't know much about them so I don't know if that pattern fades as they age or what. I just remember seeing an adult and was blown away.
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Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick

>> "I remember, oh 15 years ago a guy I knew had the most beautiful Kingsnake that he called a Patternless Gioni, I have been recently looking for then, and can't seem to find anyone that works with them. Where they a genetic morph? They seem almost impossible to find nowdays, I am curious to learn more about them, but can't seem to find any information about the history of them."

* Yes, patternless goini are still around, but not as commonly seen for sale as they were yearsa ago. Many breeders tend to work more with designer morphs of things nowadays, rather than the natural type variants.

"Goini", Blotched, or Apalachicola Lowland Kingsnakes are native to about a seven county area in the Florida panhandle that centers around the Franklin, Liberty County area.

Recently, the patternless variation of these extremely variable snakes has been subspecifically classified as "meansi", which also tends to solely inhabit the very center two counties I mentioned earlier, Franklin, and Liberty. The other surrounding counties are more inhabited by the the "goini" intergrade variant(meansi x getula).

This is not to say this cannot, or will not change in the future, but this is where it taxonomically stands today.

In any case, I have recently seen different types of these available in ads and shows, including the patternless type as well, which tend to go for a few more dollars than the others.

I'm sure you will find some in the classifieds, or elsewhere eventually.

good luck!, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

mine has no pattern,,is this what you mean....

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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python 1.0
Eastern King 0.1
Mexican Black King
Great Basin Gopher
Hypo Brooks 1.0
White Sided Bull 1.0 (Envy)
Striped Pacific Gopher (Envy)
Axanthic Brooksi 0.1 (Mark Kenderdine)
Goini King 1.0 (Mark Kenderdine)
Northern Pine 1.0 (Nick Puder)
Arizona Mtn. King 1.0 (AAM Snakes)
1.0 Pastel Red Tail Boa

I love the smell of aspen shavings in the morning...lol

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

I'm hoping to get this big ol' male,(about to shed here)

found earlier this year,
with a couple of my females next season.

This girl

is going to be paired with a look-a-like male
next year too to hopefully get a clutch or two of nice li'l ones...

another wc from earlier this year,

and though not patternless, this female keeps getting lighter and lighter.
Future breeder hopefully as well...
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

All nice but that last lil female is a smoker!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

Those gioni are beauties! Love to get a pair of those. Time to pull out the wish list again.

reako45

That female is what I am talking about!!! Wholey Cow! That is what I remember them looking like, thanks for sharing, and best of luck with your pairings.

Is the patternless trait genetic? meaning a morph? or more of a local thing?
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Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick

Since you like her, here's another older pic ...

and the male I used to get lots of red into the mix...

In my experiences and observations, the more "patternless" you start with, the better your chances are of getting better and better results if that's what you're looking for.
I always get a mix of sorts and the occasional banded one too.

Most of mine have always had some "pattern" as they were young and I've never started w/a totally "patternless pair to see just how good they can get. I was shooting for color since at the time it seemed to be the thing to do.
Even the adult female at the top has some "pattern" if you were to look at the right angle and in the right light.
Since I lost the adult male above, the timing of getting the wc male (1st pic in my first reply)couldn't have been better.
I'll have a pair of holdbacks up and running in a year or so as well.
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Mark, great job with those for sure. WC's are surely tough to find. I'd like to add that in most CB trials that patternlessness is sexually dimorphic. What is the % you would put on males/females?? I would say 80/20 or maybe even 90/10. That is what makes your female even more of a prize. That little one has more white on the head than any wc I have ever seen! I know most purists dont like the morph crosses but the patternless gene does carry over like this HYPO morph. BTW, the Yanks winning isnt good for either of us....

Mark, I still have that male I got from you in Daytona 4? years ago, he is SMOKIN"!!!
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Todd Hughes

Howz about a pic?
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

really like this guy, chow hound!
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Todd Hughes

not the invisible one, this guy!

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Todd Hughes

Mark,,,mine is from you also,,,the pic above,,,and the Axanthic Het for Albino Brooksi is amazing also....
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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python 1.0
Eastern King 0.1
Mexican Black King
Great Basin Gopher
Hypo Brooks 1.0
White Sided Bull 1.0 (Envy)
Striped Pacific Gopher (Envy)
Axanthic Brooksi 0.1 (Mark Kenderdine)
Goini King 1.0 (Mark Kenderdine)
Northern Pine 1.0 (Nick Puder)
Arizona Mtn. King 1.0 (AAM Snakes)
1.0 Pastel Red Tail Boa

I love the smell of aspen shavings in the morning...lol

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

Yeah, I knew that I always love to see 'em as they mature. You're right, he's a great looking snake.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

This one has a semistripe, but overall has an almost solid yellow coloration. He was produced by wild-caught adults. Still pretty small, I hope to breed him with his wide-banded sister in 2011.

My cousin has an absolutly stunning paternless male and we both have been lookng for a female to pair her with for some time, but have had no luck.. Although, there was one nice looking female on the classifieds a while back but she had some type of issue (a badly kinked tail i think??)..

I know they are out there but, they are tough to find these days.. Great looking snakes though!

~ Mike Russo

Here's an almost patternless male that I have.


and his future mates.


-Phil
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Work is the curse of
the drinking class!

I had an obsession with them at one time. The patternless seems to be sex-linked to males only. I wonder if Crimsonkings is a bulldike. Just kidding. Females are basically non-existant. Even breeding two patternless does not produce all patternless, so they are not het for patternless or any of that common genetic stuff. It’s a real puzzle to me. I dream of patternless Phantom or ghost types, what I call the “false leucistic” where the colors are solid and gone. A pure white with dark eyes. But producing consistent pairs (including females) may be hard. I do think the Brooks crossing in may help break that sex link thing, time will tell.
Probably my most favorite snake of all (I also believe the patternless is the only true “Goini”)

Here’s the pictures that are here in my kingsnake photo gallery, testament to my former obsession!

Funny thing....I actually got her from Len Krysko who got her from Kevin Enge in a trade...They both thought it was a male....
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

going to your snake building 2 or 3 years ago, and you were telling me how this patternless goini you got for your birthday wouldn't breed any of your females. I picked it up and went "this a female".

Maybe you were just testing me... heh.

yeah I was going on "professional" advise and never probed her...The big female I put her with almost had her for lunch!
"there's your sign"
That's actually the weekend you came by I think....
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I knew I had some more somewhere, these were in my photobucket gallery. If you’re really into them, I guess you won’t mind seeing a few more!