Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, so I am about to start buying the materials to make a big tank set up. Here is the issue I have very limited knowledge on how to go about doing this.

I would love suggestions and more over I would love to hear from people who have done this before. Any thing you wish you knew before hand, materials you wished you had used, and designs you used.

Links to this kind of info would be great as well.

I am making this set up for 7 ball pythons and Brazilian Rainbow boa. I am looking for it to be an actual tank set up not a rack system. They will be in this set up for their lives and its also a display since they are both my breeders AND my pets.

Thanks and I can't wait to see what you all have to say.

First of all it isn't a good idea to put 7 Ball Pythons in the same tank let alone 7 Ball Pythons with a Rainbow Boa.

I dont have 7 in one tank with a rainbow nor is that my plan. I have 2 males in separate tanks and 4 girls in a 75g tank as well as a new female in a small tank for quarantine. While the rainbow is in a 50g breeder tank by himself. Further more the idea of the set up is to allow them even more space to themselves and it would consist of multiple tanks. Much like a "hutch" but with compartments that would be set up as tanks.

When you say "tanks" do you mean wood cages? Do you mean a large enclosure subdivided into smaller sections? If you could be more specific in what you are looking for, perhaps someone will have pics.

European keepers often are big into "wall units" where they have a frame of 2x3s making compartments, then placing cages in those compartments. Looks like IKea. Wish I had a pic for you. I do have a European reptile magazine loaded with pics of that nature.

In any case, the prevailing tide of snake keeping here in the US is either racks or distinct cages stacked or on shelves. These approaches are the most easy to maintain and move around in comparison to a single large structure with subdividions.

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Mark

Well, by tanks I do mean either Wood cages or large contentment subdivided into smaller tanks. I have a difficult time explaining the concept in this median. The best way to explain it, is that I would be like a "hutch." Very similar to what you put pictures up of, but instead of tanks on selves the tanks would be part of the actual shelving unit.

I think something like this is what you mean.

It's the stack of cages on the right, next to the rack.

Jim Scharphorn Stack

correct, though seeing as those tanks cost large summons of money, i plan to build something similar to it. That is what I am looking for a little know how on.

i built this last year, is this kind of what you where thinking?

i have here 5 units stacked, the three on top all have removable dividers to allow 2 animals to be housed separately in one unit

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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

That is perfect. That is what I am looking for. Do you mind giving a quick run down on how you went about making that. What materials you used, are you using heat tape for heating, if so is it under the tanks with some sort of ventilation or between plastic in the tank, did you have the materials pre-cut, and anything else you could think of that would help. thanks

Did you want to build a stack of cages or a bank of cages where the ceiling of one cage acts as the floor for the one above?

And can you give us an idea of how big you want each compartment to be?

I only quickly skimmed this thread so I may have missed that part. Sorry if so.

Making it either way is cool with me, though I'm thinking about 60" wide 24" deep and 18" tall. that way i can divide them into 2 30" tanks and 3 20". I have this forum up on 2 other sites too so its hard to tell what I have said to who so I have no problem answering any question even if its already been answered Im just happy to get some feed back.

It looks like you're getting some good advice. I don't have a lot of time to post here anymore so I won't chime in and confuse things.

With the dimensions you listed you might have some waste with the typical 4x8 sheet that I believe the other poster used. Something to keep in mind if you're not completey set on the dimensions you mentioned.

True Baltic Birch plywood comes in 5x5 sheets but then you're stuck with finishing the material which adds cost and time, although probably leads to a more durable cage overall depending on how you do it.

Melamine gets a bad rap, much of it due to the lower quality thermofoil stuff sold at Home Depot and similar stores. Definitely worth the upcharge for cabinet grade melamine, IMO. High quality melamine is still a very valid way to build cages.
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Currently keeping:

3.5.5 Gonyosoma oxycephalum (Javan, mixed colors)
0.0.3 Rhynchophis boulengeri
0.2 Lampropeltis triangulum multistriata
0.2 Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae
0.0.3 Rhamphiophis rubropunctatus
1.1.1 Morelia viridis (Aru & Merauke locale types)
1.0 Morelia clastolepis
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback

You definitely make a very good point and I do plan on making a bit of an upgrade on materials. This will allow it to last longer and it wont have a lot of the issues the lower grades have. Also, in some cases it actually will look a bit nicer.

ok here is a quick rundown, i work for a cabinet shop and was able to have material ordered for me that consisted of 3/4" maple melamine for the shell and also some 1/4" melamine for floors. the reason i used melamine was because it is a durable finished surface thats water proof and looks good, it doesnt need any stain, sealer, varnish, paint, or anything.

i was also given permission from my boss to use to use the shop at work(even though he complained and gave me reason after reason why he doesnt let anyone use the shop the ENTIRE time i was there then on top of that he also charged me an hourly rate... my boss is a an A$$) so i had access to a big panel saw and an edge banner. those where nice to use and made it easy but you can still do it without...

my cages are the typical 4'x 2' and are 16" tall, they are 5 separate units stacked together to make one tower.

to start i cut the 3/4" to use as 2 sides, a top, a back, and two 2" strips to to use as a top and bottom for a face.

you can kinda see that here.... sorry i didnt take the best construction pictures

each of the sides, the back, and the bottom face strip have a 9/32" dato to accept the 1/4" floor. this is 1/2" up from the bottom to allow an air space for flexwatt. the flexwatt heat goes through the 1/4" A LOT easier than it would through 3/4". temps are controlled with a dimmer switch, not the best way but as long as they are checked several times a day with a temp gun you can get it to be pretty consistent. i also have a section of rope light in each cage which really doesnt do much more than a little extra light when cleaning so i hardly ever use them. but sometimes it makes for a nice display at night when its dark

the heat and light are switched and mounted in a box on the side

as stated before the top 3 boxes have removable dividers. this is a simple stop mounted on inside of the back and face frame. each divider has two nailers mounted front and back, so once in place one screw through each will hold it

the doors are 1/4" plexy glass that sit in a track. i milled the track just out of 1/2" pine, this allows the doors to slide side to side for quick water change, or more commonly, to be lifted up and completely out of the way for full access. i have handles mounted right to the plexy, and if you look close you can see vent holes in them as well, this is why i went with plexy instead of glass so that i could drill the holes myself... one thing that i did run into that i wasnt aware of, is the warping of the plexy. when you have a nice warm cage on one side and a cooler room on the other it expands at different rates causing it to bow. this effects how is sits in the track and makes it harder to slide and remove....

if i where to change anything i might change the doors, i really like the lift up and out style so maybe just switch to glass that doesnt warp. the edge banding glue does not seal the particle board core, so where it get wet it WILL expand.

i do really like the melamine for its pre-finish and several other reasons, but if there is a next time i think i will go with cabinet grade plywood, coat the inside with repti-shield and stain and seal the outside, i really didnt want to have to go through all that with these but for the next build i will

over all i am very happy with how they came out and feel they will hold up for years

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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Wow fantastic thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. I do have a few questions about it though. I apologize if it seems like I don't have a clue about this its because sadly I don't. The closest to this I have build is a mediocre shelving unit I have my current tanks on.

What did you use to attach everything together with. Did you use pre-drilled holes and screws, nails, or some other form of adhesive.

Also I am a bit confused by the section that states "each of the sides, the back, and the bottom face strip have a 9/32" dato to accept the 1/4" floor. this is 1/2" up from the bottom to allow an air space for flexwatt." If you could explain that I would appreciate it.

Thanks again though this is by far the best info I have received and I cant wait to get started on my own.

everything is glued and screwed, i used "Roo Glue" which is a melamine specific glue. run a small bead of glue down one edge line it up and.... here is where i cheat a little i shoot a 1 1/4" brad to hold two pieces together, this gives me a chance to pre-drill(with countersink) and drive my screws in, 1 1/2" course thread screws are plenty every 8-10" apart..... thats NOT the only way to do it but it is a good way

ok lets see if i can explain your dato groove, and again like above this isnt the only way just how i did it and it works out good. this is the best picture i found to show the bottom of one of the cages

here you see the bottom of the cage to kinda give you an idea.

we know the the floor is 1/4 material, and it needs to sit up above the bottom of the cage to allow for heat tape easy enough that where your 1/2" airgap is. now the best way to install the floor is to recess it into the sides, front and back. dato grooves have to be cut into those four pieces (front back and two sides) thats gonna want to be 9/32" wide just 1/32 bigger than 1/4" this will allow for the 1/4" floor to fit with out being to tight. now this means the floor has to be cut bigger than the finish interior dimension, 1/4" over lap on all sides is good so just add 1/2" to length and width.... meaning if you build your box and you get finish size of 10" x 20" (simple numbers to keep it simple) you would then want to cut your floor piece 10 1/2" x 20 1/2" (10.5 x 20.5 soor if im using too many fractions)

one last thing you can see in the picture i have three added strips of 1/2" for extra support that run front to back. these are just glued in place for added support.

so it kinda hard for me to explain but i hope it help let me know if you have anymore questions
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Just making sure I get this correct. So you have about 1/2" added to the bottom of the tank on all 4 sides(front, back, and either side) and you are adding a groove into this in which you slide the heat tape into?

I have been staring at your last response for about an hour now so that I can try and understand it but it seems to have just gone over my head.

Is the heat tape just placed in the groove or merely set down on top of the cover/floor below it. Also, is it just wired and placed where it goes or is it placed in between something.

Sorry if this seems redundant, but I want to make sure I truly understand what your saying before I make an attempt.

Thanks again.

no its ok im not good at explaining myself but maybe a picture will help

the heat tape will be mounted to the underside of the floor in the 1/2" air space

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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Fantastic that makes a lot more sense now that I can see it. Thank you so much I really appreciate it. I will going to buy up my materials soon I hope and I can't wait to get it finished.

Thanks again I couldn't have done this with out you.

Hey sorry I do actually have one more question about that last part. What is it you are using to mount you heat tape and what size tape did you use. thanks again

i used 4" i think 6watt heat tape. two strips spaced evenly to cover a little less than half the floor. that provides a good sized hot spot enough to keep the ambient air temp up, and also provides a cool side for a nice gradient
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Just my 2 cents in here but you seem to want something to look at more than advice from people with similar experiences. I have been building, fixing, adjusting, and re-building cages for 20 years as a breeder. I have made plywood, particle board, melamine, acrylic, and other types of cages and racks. Most people here have done the same. Instead of starting at the beginning(where we all started)maybe you should think about the "WHY" we have migrated to what we have. No offense mind you, and though those are excellent cages unless you use the right materials and build properly you will most likely be back at the drawing board alot sooner than you want. Skimping on materials and every other small mistake will add up.
You have this many snakes already, do you think 6 months or a year in the future you will have more, the same or less specimens?? We ALL know that answer,LMAO! Having expandable capacity is a benefit. With expanding colonies in the same area space efficiency now becomes a premium as well. More animals=more time cleaning,etc so efficient cleaning should be emphasized as a standard of good husbandry. Movable, removable, replacable containers have become the standards for just these reasons. Most people have a lone "display tank" like you are talking, but the time(designing, collecting materials as well as building) and $$ you spend on such you are going to wish you had back at some point. Remember not only measure twice and cut once.....but think 2,3,4 times before building and buying something like this. I would be willing to bet if you look in your local classifieds there may be a "display tank" of some sort for sale. There are alot of people that are into reptiles for only a short time, a fad or a phase they go through. Maybe the cage is not exactly what you are looking for, but remember to ask yourself...."why is it there? Why isnt anyone buying it" Racks, if built well, will always be in demand and you will likely get at least materials cost back out of it (because its flexible enough to be used with different species)....money you will have back for your next design a few months down the road. If this is the last cage you build you will be happy either way. But if you evolve as we have you will certainly rethink this decision IMHO. Good luck either way!

I think you definitely have a very valid point. I will most definitely have more snakes next year and the collection will continue to grow with time. I plan on swapping some of the materials before doing the construction. I do have a small rack system for neonates currently and when I have more snakes, I will be building another rack for a good chunk of them. My main reason behind this style of tank is my girlfriend who co-owns most of the snakes with me. She wants me to build something that we can display the snakes with as well as house them for some time without making our lives hell trying to clean them out. Their current aquariums are insanely difficult to clean and being able to get in through the front will make it so much easier.

If I were you, knowing what you are trying to do and what the gf wants....Explain to her that a BIG display isnt as efficient LONG TERM. Go to the kingsnake forum and pan down a couple weeks til you get to a rack built by John Lassiter. It is completely adjustable! I would build 1-2 4' wide containers to put in this rack...for now. You can then add more shelves above and below to make efficient space as your collection expands. You can build these 2 cages with plexi sliding fronts,etc, removable to be cleaned. Heat with flexwatt or the like. The rack may cost $100, the cages about the same. Dont skimp on materials, make the smallest tolerances possible. Sand and finish properly, make the inside water and chemical proof as possible. Combining 2 "little" displays with the rack will be the best use of time and funds and let her see her snakes! FYI, you can also take some great pics of her snakes and blow them up in a frame....that works too,lol. Dont tell her I told ya.

Believe me I have tried to get her to reconsider the design and the original plans were far more complex. I am very book smart but I have zero real experience in wood working, only knowledge in theory. I would much rather re-create a much large scale version of the neonate rack I already have. Funny enough I didn't have to tell he your last comment she read it out to me. She at least found it funny but made it very clear that, that wasn't going to happen. lol

Oh well, I figure this will appease her for now while I work on my more long term setup. Although, I tried to find the rack you where looking for but I couldn't seem to locate it. Is the person you referred to under a different name. If you could just reply with the link added in that would be fantastic. Thanks again I always love feed back.

LOL, here is the link
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1754127,1754127
You can build 1-2 small display cages that fit in the rack for now.....and adjust it and add to it later for the best of both worlds. Now go make him dinner~~~ROFLMAO!

lol thanks. And are you trying to get me killed that women would burn water given the chance to be in the kitchen lol.

My advice is to skip all this wood stuff and purchase plastic caging. It looks nice and lasts, and has resale/trade value should you get out of the hobby. Although I do agree on the rack. The adjustable rack (link provided by Jeff) is doable and effective.

I don't want to rob you of building your own stuff; it is fun and educational. It is most rewarding when you have access to quality tools. It gets frustrating when you don't.

The cage construction pics shown by saagbay (spelling?) are the result of professional tools - a panel saw, edge banding machine, etc.

Alternatively, have a wood shop make the cage shells for you. They provide the good material (better than home improvement store material), do the precision cuts, finish the edges and correctly fasten the panels together. You can have fun doing the doors and heating. And after you lift those cages and realize how heavy they are, and once you realize after spilling water that melamine is not so waterproof, you might remember this post and wish you invested in plastic cages with none of those issues. (just an opinion here with the goal of having you happy with the end result).

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Mark

Well although I don't have experience or tools, but both my step-dad and my girlfriends father have very large shops in their back yards with all the tools I need and then some. Plus, despite the fact I have been avoiding using his help my girlfriends father use to be a craftsmen and would be more then qualified to help me with it. But still I would much rather use either a rack system or just purchase a plastic cage or something similar, but sadly the girl steps in and says "No" so little I can do there lol.

but on a more serious note both Jeff and Mark have very good points.

one other thing that i did want to mention, is that i did make those as a custom build for myself, and its custom for a reason, thats what works for me. im not saying it wont work for someone else, but when designing this i had three main factors, in consideration.

one being my personal capabilitys, having been a woodworker hobbyist, a carpenter for 5 years, and now work as a cabinetmaker, i am more than confident in my skills for this build. no problem there

two being resources... i move from mass to albuquerque two years ago and i left every tool i owned with my father, i now dont have any tools at all. however i do work at a cabinet shop and have access to all of those tools which includes far more than whats needed. so despite having issues with my boss after he did give me permission, i was able to use what i did need.

three being a budget, i looked around at all of the big name cage suppliers to try to get an idea as to how much it would cost to buy then compared that to an estimate of what it would cost to build. well the numbers where like night and day i would be crazy not to build myself..... well after all was said and done... yes i spent FAR more than i first figured, which sucked but at that point there was nothing i could do.

i am not trying to talk you out of building yourself, i did it and i loved it and i am more than supportive and willing to help anyone trying to do the same. my cages came out great and perfect for what i need, but again thats only because they where designed just for that. like i said in a couple of my post here, this isnt the only way to do it might not even be the best way.... its just how i did it, because that what worked for me.

"The cage construction pics shown by saagbay (spelling?) are the result of professional tools - a panel saw, edge banding machine, etc. " (and yest Mark lol spelling is perfect)

this was one thing that Mark said that really made me think. consider the edge banding alone. it took me a half hour to do all my banding, that includes filing corners and wiping everything down, buy the end of the job i put in for over 150 feet of banding! i cant imagine doing that with an iron!!

so dont get overly excited about the first good design you come across, take ideas from it and get other ideas for other designs, then put them all together for a custom build that perfect for you and your resources.

im still willing to help give suggestions answer question and that type of stuff, just remember what worked for me may or may not work for you. this kinda thing takes time i was right where you are for months picking the brains of Mark, Chris, and Jeremy (thanks again guys!) before i settled. i know myself its hard not to get excited and jump right in, but take your time really
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Well, although yours was definitely the first good design I have received I do have a few others that have been tossed up on a couple other forums I have been surfing, I'm a bit of a forum troll, and I do plan on mixing and matching to see what will work best for me. Though I must admit you design can be simplified to a very nice design that is completely within my capability. thanks again for the help from you and the rest of the people that have helped

I should have said,

The construction pics posted by saagbay are the result of professional tools (panel saw, edge banding machine, etc) and skilled craftsmanship from a top-notch cabinet maker.
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Mark

lol i like it, i sometimes like to think i know what im doing or even what im talking about... but thats taking it a little far lol however doesnt hurt the ego
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Read most of the posts and saw some very good points and thought I'd add a few of my own....

1) Build it yourself caging when done well can be very asthetically pleasing and is a huge sense of accomplishment. When attempted by a novice can be very frustrating and end up a huge mess. You have resources like your father in law - USE THEM!!!

2) Done right, you won't really save much (if any) money when all is said and done.

3) Custom caging is really great when you have your own concept or special need/place to put it and needs to be an off size to fit.

Built these for my rainbow boas for breeding purposes, love em and yeah, would have been cheaper to just buy a similar plastic version.

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats