Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A post came up on the milksnake forum about brumating snakes together, mostly like sexes and mostly to save space: http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1754096,1754096

Later in the thread, users talked about reproductive benefits to brumating pairs together, including increased fertility.

Has anyone tried brumating breeding pairs of Western Hognose together? Is there a risk that a female might ovulate when introduced to a male during brumation?

Has anyone tried this ... successfully or otherwise?

Thanks!
Adam

I did it once, many years ago. I actually saw courtship activity occur in the dead of winter! Might be a good idea-I may try it with a couple of pairs this winter.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

What Brad saw - courtship over Winter - is what I saw when I brumated Cal kings together in a group, males and females. And one pair stayed off by themselves most of the time. They were the largest and oldest of the group, and she produced wonderfully each year. I believe there is bonding over Winter, at least with Cal kings.

For some reason, keepers in the US seem to think that snakes stay alone their entire lives, which is far from true. At least for kingsnakes, it is known that Winter often brings pairs together, and even includes other species. After all, in the wild they seek the same conditions, and it stands to reason that a suitable wintering area would be taken advantage by most in the area. It is a great opportunity to bond with a potential mate and avoid the hazards of chasing a female down later. My theory anyway.

I don't know about Hognose, since they seem so nomadic, but I guarantee that cooling a pair together will not harm anything and will probably ensure mating.
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Mark

Thanks for the helpful replies! I have a couple of pairs that I'll probably try this with. Adam

I've brumated pairs and groups in the past. Nothing negative to report about it.
As far as a female ovulating during brumation, I don't see how that could even happen. When the temps are right their metabolism slows down, no digestion, no weight loss, etc. So I don't see how a female could ovulate. Ovulation is associated with longer days / more hours of daylight, higher temps, first or second shed of the new spring. I have seen snakes shed during brumation but even that process took longer.
If it did happen I would say that brumation temps and conditions were wrong.
Just my 2 cents.

Thanks, I wouldn't think brumation temps would be ideal for ovulation, but just wanted to be sure. I've heard anecdotes about people putting two adults together in November for cage cleaning, then finding eggs with the female in January. These snakes have been on their own since July. If environmental cues (heat, light, etc.) trigger ovulation, I would think being introduced to a well-conditioned mate could be one of them.

There are many things that can trigger ovulation... It can be temp changes, humidity changes, light cycles, barometric pressure, increased feeding, and the introduction of a male... All of theses things can trigger ovulation even in the species "off season"...

Although I am no expert in hogs my experience with other species tells me that ovulation can happen at any time even without the introduction of any of these ovulation triggers...

>>As far as a female ovulating during brumation, I don't see how that could even happen. When the temps are right their metabolism slows down, no digestion, no weight loss, etc. So I don't see how a female could ovulate. Ovulation is associated with longer days / more hours of daylight, higher temps, first or second shed of the new spring. I have seen snakes shed during brumation but even that process took longer.
>>If it did happen I would say that brumation temps and conditions were wrong.
>>Just my 2 cents.

I didn't say ovulation persay, but courtship, bonding.. it happens with kingsnakes. I don't know about hognose. Oh, and ovulation has been seen in the field in populations of rattlesnakes and kingsnakes in Ariz during Winter. Not making claims with Hognose, just saying that snakes take advantage of available conditions. Doesn't mean the conditions are wrong. Just means the snakes will do what the conditions support. And not all individuals do the exact same thing necessarily. Better for survival of the population as a whole.
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Mark