Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I received my first Indigo on Sunday and already I'm having real concerns about her. She was in shed when I got her, but has been acting lethargic. She looks to be healthy and becomes alert whenever I open her cage or reach in to handle her. She even gives me the neck puff and vibrating tail on occasion, though she is very tame besides her bluffs. She is in a 4x1.5 cage with heat tape along one side of the bottom set at low 70s at night and mid 80s during the day. Just today I noticed a few tiny blood spots on the paper towels. She had also pooped in the corner. She hasn't been fed in well over a week - this is what the previous owner told me. I was planning on letting her settle in and finish shedding before I feed her. Should I try feeding her now? She is very close to shedding her skin. Should I refrain from handling Indigo snakes while they are shedding? Do Indigos act more lethargic during shed? I have no basis on which to compare that last question because I have only owned one for a few days now. However, I was expecting her to move around the cage more than she is currently. I also noticed that the only part of her old skin that was broken was around the cloaca, where apparantly she may have tore through some of the old skin to poop. Could this be where the blood came from? Please help, I'm very concerned right now. The following three pictures are of the blood spots (first spot, second spot, then both spots together). The last picture is of her poop. Let me know what you think.

first blood spot

second blood spot

both blood spots

poo

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Jerry Wei
WeiSides Zoo

My snake has just shed. It was one whole piece and after measuring her skin, she can be confirmed to be almost exactly 6' long. This must have happened within the past hour or so after my first post. Hopefully this means I won't be seeing any more blood spots on the cage floor.
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Jerry Wei
WeiSides Zoo

Glad to hear the shed went ok. I'd still follow Oldherper's advice and get a fecal done. It's a inexpensive test that can rule out some potential causes of blood in the stool.
It's something you'd probably want to do anyway before introducing this snake to the rest of your collection.
Good luck,
Chris

I would take a fecal sample to the vet and have it checked. The blood spots are not really normal. Most snakes (including Indigos) will be a little less active while they are in shed, so if she acts normally now, I wouldn't be overly concerned about that part. As far as the poop goes...well, that's just what Indigos do. They are messy poopers...she actually gave you a break, it looks like. Normally they will redecorate the inside of their cage with it, trying to see if they can paint the entire inside surface of the cage with one poop.

I agree with Oldherper, have a fecal done. And have it done by a vet that knows reptiles. Vets unfamiliar with snakes can overlook certain reptile parasites. If it does have parasites, avoid Ivermectin! Panacure is pretty safe, and Flagyl seems to be ok in LOWER doses. I can get you the dosage if needed.

Another thought: Was is very hot during transit?
Overheating can cause internal bleeding in snakes.

For now, make sure your snake is well hydraded, and keep the cage VERY clean. If you do have a parasite issue, this will help prevent it from getting worse or spreading to your other reptiles.

Make sure the snake has a cooler (70's) place to hide and a basking spot in the 80's during the day.

Since you may not get any more poop for a fecal analysis, I would go ahead and offer a small meal (emphasis on small)

Don't handle after feeding. Assuming it keeps it down, you should get some feces in a couple days.

Take the sample for a fecal analysis.

If your snake regurgitates...let us know and we will try to help more.

Good luck!

PS: Shed snake skins are larger than the snakes themselves. If the skin measures 6', your snake is proabably about 5.5'

I keep 7 Spilotes pullatus in terraria with paper substrate.
Spilotes pullatus is more related to Drymarchon than to Elaphe.
With Elaphe I never had blood traces over paper, but with Spilotes pullatus it's a common finding.
I really don't know why, but it happens, and I observed very carefully the animals during defecation, and noticed that the blood "markings" come from the cloacal gland region and/or hemipens region in male animals, when they extrude this region after defecation and rub it over the paper.
A good vet, friend of mine, has said to me it can be cloacal gland bleeding, without patologic importance.
Actually my 7 animals were always kept separetly, come from different sources and their fecals are negative!!!
No eggs, no worms, no coccidia.
Blood parasites are the only thing I can't look for.
Of my 7 Spilotes pullatus, I've noticed blood from the cloaca in:
- my yellow male;
- my black male (which is now still weak after Baycox therapy!);
- my black female;
- my small orange female.
These 4 animals are WC, but now parasite free.

Othersides:
- my yellow female WC;
- my black-yellow female WC;
- my black young male CB. These 3 animals have never leaved blood traces (or maybe so small ones that I didn't notice them !).

The question is open, but I would't be upset for blood traces, if fecals are negative !

Ruggero

Far be it from me to minimize the great advice others have provided as a result of your post. However, our Tex occasionally exhibits the same symptoms you describe, and if I remember correctly Ruggerio was looking for a reason for this bleeding in his Spilotes not too long ago. While a fecal for a new animal is always wise before adding the animal to your collection it is not always the case that the blood seen on the substrate is indicative of anything else other than a change of diet, stress, water defiency (sp) or something of the like.

Frankly, I don't panic as a result of a blood spot or two, any more than I panic (prepare yourself) when I see it in myself. It happens, sometimes it's just a rough day. If it's remains consistant (bleeding) and not attributable to the above environmental changes it's worth having a vet take a look.

Face it, you are a new owner of a particularly desirable and expensive animal. Kinda like being a new parent, everything that happens is gonna give you a little anxiety. My advice is to hang out and allow both you and your new captive time to adjust.

Regards,
J.

N/P

I will feed her today and wait to collect a fecal sample. Do I just scrape off a chunk and keep it in a zip lock bag for the vet? How big of a sample would I need to collect? Hopefully I am just overreacting and this turns out to be nothing to worry about. Indigos just command my upmost respect and attention, more so than any other snake I have ever had before. Thanks again for all the help.
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Jerry Wei
WeiSides Zoo

Try to get it to the vet within a day if you can.
Take a good portion of the "brown mass" and you should be fine.

First, you received some great advice so I have nothing to contribute. BUT, I would like to recommend that you SEAL the cracks on your cage. As you will quickly find out, indigos don't just defecate...they explode. W/out a good seal, your cage is going to be absolutely ODORIFIC. Hopefully, this is just a temporary cage for an indigo the size of your's.

Just in case, perhaps my favorite Saint might suggest an appropriate sealant . . .

Oblate Beatrice

I probably wouldn't be your favorite one, but....

A tube of 100% Silicone Sealant and a caulking gun work pretty well. Just make sure the silicone is completely cured before you put the snake back in the cage.

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