Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Dont know if anyone seen this yet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzQOnn7lqk

This guy is dead wrong-that's an eastern. The paired neck blotches are diagnostic.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

"Some things are flat impossible-until they're done."
Robert A. Heinlein

I'll try to be objective here and give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Having seen the video, my initial reaction is that this is without a doubt an Eastern. However, the guy that has it also claimed to have thought it was an Eastern until he thoroughly examined the snake: "His rostral is sharply upturned. He has 26 dorsal scales at mid body and 48 subcaudals. all outside the range of the eastern and inside the that of the western scale count. It all matches even face scale counts. look up the scientific definitions. His scale counts fit him in with the westerns. I thought for sure it was going to be a eastern when I caught him but when I got a close look I wasn't so sure so I counted."

Obviously the guy is not an idiot and took the time to compare scale counts and what-not to try and ascertain exactly what this is. Unfortunately, I believe body scale counts to more of a guideline than a hard rule. Head scales seem to be more specific however. What if the scale counts on this animal were clearly indicative of a Western and not anywhere near what an Eastern should be? That, in my opinion, might suggest that this animal might be a type of intergrade/hybrid then rather than a full blown Western.

While the initial impression might be that this is an Eastern, I won't rule out that this might be something entirely different given the information supplied by the owner. However, I would definitely think twice though about adding an unknown genetic animal like into my breeding plans however if there were a possibility of it being a hybrid.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Maybe-but that snake also has the "gestalt" of an eastern. The head is slim and elongate compared to a nasicus, and that snout doesn't look near utrurned enough either.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

"Some things are flat impossible-until they're done."
Robert A. Heinlein

Maybe-but that snake also has the "gestalt" of an eastern. The head is slim and elongate compared to a nasicus, and that snout doesn't look near upturned enough either.

I don't disagree with you as those were pretty much my observations as well but reading as how the guy did his research on the scale counts between the two species can't be ignored either. That's why I'm entertaining the idea of it possibly being a hybrid. It's too bad that genetic testing is so expensive and out of reach of the common public because that sure would help solve a lot of riddles out there.

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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

is a shot of the entire belly including the underside of the tail-that should leave little doubt.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

"Some things are flat impossible-until they're done."
Robert A. Heinlein

I would agree with hybrid before full Western IF the scale counts are correct but my opinion is that it is an Eastern...

Usually with hybrids, scale counts are a bit off from both parent species...

Although variable, hybrids will usually look like both parent species and there would be much more variation than just scale count...

Scale counts can differ greatly even between animals of the same species from different localities...

lol... i have thats probly one of the most retared thing ive ever seen!!!

I`m agree with You opinion joseph

Best regards
Grzegorz

www.hognosebreeders.ning.com
Link

It is an eastern. Try to get some photos (head scalation would be nice).

-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC

It was caught near Bastrop State Park, which is in the range of an Eastern. I don't see why he keeps saying the it's "definately a western" in the video - because it's definately not!

Tim

Third Eye