Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I am new to the forums and my name is Samantha Bottoms.
My husband is Archie Bottoms.
We caught a pair of New Mexican Milksnakes breeding at the exact same time that we caught them which was in May, 2008.
Archie was going to let them go at one time and has posted pictures of them under his user name but he has decided that we should keep them now that I am getting more passionate and interested in snakes.
I am beginning to get quite a passion for snakes. Archie cares for all of my snakes at this time while I am learning how to care for them, how to breed them, how to select them, etc.
I would appreciate any and all suggestions, opinions, and feedback. Thank you!

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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

I am still learning about these forums and didn't know that I could only add three photos to my post so I am making a reply to my original post so that I could add the rest of my pictures.

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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

I'm glad the two finally found some love! They're a great pair, but I'm sure Archie really knows his stuff! I heard the female is the picky eater, eh?
~Jasmine

Hi, they have always been loved. The female is a rather picky eater, although, I do believe that Archie has managed to get her to eat rather successfully now. I also think that the female did have a skin condition of some sort but since my husband is so amazing when it comes to animals especially reptiles, I do believe that that issue has been cleared up as well. I will try to get more recent pictures of them uploaded today sometime.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Yea they always had love but the female worried me.She is eating a few live pinks at a time and I am hopeing she will be ready to put down in dec, So we can breed this year.
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Archie Bottoms

Hibernation is good and breeding is better....
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Glad you could join in on the snake "sickness" Samantha..LOL!

I'm familiar with your husband Archie too, as I have seen him post stuff on a lot of the different forums here. I know he has a lot of "hot" stuff as I recall, and see him from time to time on the "what is it?" forum as well.

How lucky you guys were to catch a mating pair of annulata at the same time!..wow!, that is way cool!, I wish I could be so lucky.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, I am sure you will love the snake game more and more as you gain more experience and knowledge too, it's just the way it is..LOL! Just ask Archie, he knows what I'm talking about!

Anyway, any milk question AT ALL you can get great experienced answers to here, there is no question at all about that, I alone have 42 years of dedicated snake experience, and tons of the other guys here have very similar experience and knowledge too. It is amazing about the stuff that is shared over here on this forum. Also, it is one of the friendlier forums too. There are some other ones that are frequented by some real clowns I'm telling you..LOL!

Have fun raising those nice annulata!, and hope to see you around more in the future as well. Are you going to breed those this coming spring?, if not, that's certainly okay too, because a bunch of babies can be a lot of work too. Archie knows where most of that responsibility will fall..HAHAHA!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Celonops doug
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Archie Bottoms

Archie, where did you collect that pair of milks? Because they look all the world to be annulata, or maybe amaura.
L.t. celaenops usually key in w/ a low band count of 17, and your pair look to be a little lower band count then that. You could have collected them in an intergrade area where you could get celaenops/annulata mix. Your collection locality would shed some light on why their RBR (red body ring)count is so low.
Great looking milks either way, and what a great find to have found a pair, nice work.

-Dell

Here is a classic looking celaenops.

Yocum county on the newmexico line.This is pritty much what they look like up here all the way down to upton county then you start seeing those transpecos celinops.
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Archie Bottoms

They are from around the area that we live which includes several different counties. The milksnake that you have a picture of in your post is of a more Southern locale than ours is.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

I need a dictionary of these snake words so that I know what all of these scientific terms that ya'll use mean without having to ask all the time.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Thanks for the warm welcome! I have actually had a user name for quite awhile but I was just on the exotic forum for coatimundi's which was completely dead so I lost all interest in Kingsnake.com because my mind has to stay busy at all times. I began a small interest in the snake 'sickness' at last year's (November, 2008) Reptile Show that was in San Antonio when I was able to walk around to talk other Herpetologists while I was taking pictures. I have become even more interested in the Snake Game as Archie has taken me on some mini-snake-hunts with him when he has gone around our home on the days that I have wanted to go and was able to go with him. That is how we caught our pair of New Mexican Milksnakes when we were blessed to have them breeding at the same time that we caught them. I do look forward to learning more knowledge and thus getting more experience so that I may be able to start taking care of my own snakes with Archie giving me guidance.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

That all sounds like a great way to go. You will just LOVE the long fascinating snake journey!. The long "ride" is the most gratifying part!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Doug, thanks I am positive that I will LOVE the long fascinating snake journey and from me watching Archie, I am looking forward to the long gratifying ride. I enjoyed the pictures that you posted for me to see.

Babies being born are so awesome...I love how the little head looks so cute in the 2nd picture where it is being born. What kind of milksnake is that?

I love the 3rd picture...what locale is that snake from?

The 5th picture has such a very small snake that I was wonderifng if that a baby milksnake or is that an adult?

I really like the milksnake in the 6th picture. What is its locale?

Oh and the 8th picture is the most awesome milksnake that I have seen and I must have it. Where is its locale?

I have so many questions due to Archie not being home to help answer them. Sorry.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Samantha, they are as follows.........

pic 2)..Is a tricolored hatchling Honduran milk I produced last year, it is a recessive het gene carrier for amel(albino) and anerythrism(absence of red/orange), so combined together, it is double het for "snow" as well.

pic 3)..Is a very aberrant patterned hypomelanistic(reduced melanin) Honduran Milk I bought from a friend.

pic 5)..a little baby Scarlet Kingsnake(which are milksnakes) I produced many years ago from South Florida stock.

pic 6)..Is an "extreme" hypo Honduran milk from Mike Falcon's bloodline.

pic 8)..Is an amel(albino) "peach" Honduran Milk from Doug Beard x Envy Reptiles stock(acquired from my friend Kurt Decker out of Ft. Lauderdale.

And this pic is of a Calvert County locale Coastal Plains milksnake(temporalis) From years ago.

Glad you like those!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Doug, you have a very nice collection. Thank you for taking the time to tell me information on each of the pictures that I had questions on. I very much appreciate it. I do like this most recent picture that you have posted for me.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Thanks!,...I forgot to tell you that the last single pic(Coastal Plains milk) is from Calvert County, Maryland, I forgot you might not know which state that is in not being a real "milk-head" yet..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Its a great pair of snakes no doubt,but thy exibit more Gentilis influence than they do "caelonops" any day of the week.

L8r

or maybe celaenops.LOL.....to many cold ones...

L8r

I do apologize in advance if my questions sound inappropriate or silly. I am trying to learn and get as much knowledge as possible before I even think about asking Archie to let me assist him in caring for my snake collection. I figured that it is always good to ask questions rather than just keep my mouth shut and mess up something that can not be repair. Thank you for any knowledge that you choose to share with me.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Shannon, thank you. Would you please explain what you mean by how they exhibit more Gentilis influence than they do "celinopsos" any day of the week? I am still new to this snake industry and need more knowledge so please share your knowledge with me. Thank you.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Well, If you put a celaenops and a Gentilis side by side and took a pic and then looked at yours you would be able to see what I am talking about.
Too low of a band count to start with and too pointy of a snout.Then the big red flag for me is the width of the inner bands.And I haven't seen to many celaenops with the widow peaks like yours have.Most pure celaenops have even bands from dorsal scales to belly scales.

L8r Shannon

Shannon, do you have two pictures to sit side by side so I can actually see what you are saying. I only have pictures of my snakes. If you do have two pictures that you can sit side by side would you please do so if it is not too much of an inconvenience for you? If you do not have two pictures and/or it is too much of an inconvenience for you, I do understand. I learn better by asking questions and seeing images. Thank you for your time with helping me learn. I appreciate it very much.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Lol, thanks, Doug! I would have eventually asked Archie about the county thing. I look forward to becoming a full 'milk-head' especially after looking at your Hondurans. Archie said that they all have a band across their nose which makes them very attractive to me.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Cool snakes.
Welcome to the room.If you want to learn about milks just read the old posts.Or ask questions
You can get a photopucket account for free and post as many pics as you want. http://photobucket.com/

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Doug L

How do you post from PhotoBucket??

Been wanting to share some pics...

Thanks!
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
0.1 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.1 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
1.1 T pos Sinaloan (coming soon!)

That is an excellent question that I was going to ask but forgot to. Thanks for asking it.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

These are some nice looking snakes that you have pictures of in this post. I used to have a photobucket account so I may just see if I can remember my username on there so that I can have many more pictures of my own collection as I get more. Thanks for the warm welcome and for sharing these photos with me. I have dialup so I gave up on seeing all of them. I may go on down to the library to check them out.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Nice series, as always Doug. That pic of the milk in the nest box with the one eye poking out there is really sweet.

Dave
DNS Reptiles

here's a question, if you're willing to help out with an inquiry i've begun: could you look at the snake in the 20th pic, if you still have it--the one with very clean very white rings--and spread the scales and report back on what color the skin is behind/between those white scales? ditto for the red and black?
thanks
terry

I remember Archie posting them a while back. They're a very attractive pair, no doubt about it. Brained, frozen/thawed rat pinkies are worth trying on that reluctant female. Let us know how things turn out!

-Cole

L. t. multistrata - Pennington Co., SD

Archie has the female eating now and her skin issue is clearing up now. We are hoping to be able to hibernate her in December so that we can breed the pair in May after pulling them out of hibernation in late March. We will keep ya'll posted.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Oh yea I have herd the gentilis ingrade for these milks from this area not annulata or amura.The milks in this area should be called southern plains milk snakes and elivate to sub status.There many forms of celinops and that makes us like kids in a candy shop.Samantha you have some nice snakes there thanks for not letting me get rid of them they are nice.
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Archie Bottoms

I really like them. Thanks for keeping them when I was against getting rid of them since you are their primary care giver at that/this time. I am hoping to be able to be more hands on with them by the time you are ready to bring them out of hibernation.
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I keep hitting 'escape' but I'm still here.Simply Sober

Well shannon I still support the geninops celtilis .The fact is there is a giant area with animals like this between the classic gentilis and the classic celinops range.Well out of the gentilis range and with in the celinops range or considered range.That is why I always have as do many other people who catch these that a sup specific designation as sand hill or southern plains sub should be recognized but what do I know.But I agree with you.They fit in the middle as there range is in the middle.
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Archie Bottoms