Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone,

Last night, 33 montane Mexican rattlesnakes were stolen from my collection housed in Alpine, Texas. Among the snakes were Crotalus willardi amabilis, C. w. silus, C. lepidus maculosus, C. l. morulus, and C. p. pricei. Most were juveniles, except for 4 adult C. w. amabilis and several C. p. pricei. Adults were legally collected and imported from Mexico...the juveniles were offspring from these adults. Despite being in a hurry and working in the dark, the thieves knew which adult

C. w. amabilis to take...they left the oldest adults, and stole 2 adult females and 2 adult males. They also knew not to take the ESA-listed C. w. obscurus. They opened several cages containing baby C. w. obscurus, but did not take any. A police report was filed, and numerous sets of fingerprints were obtained from the glass doors on the Vision cages housing the adults. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, I have an extensive collection of shed skins from all snakes in my collection. You can remove pit tags and hide snakes in dark basements, but you can't change a snake's DNA. I have been saving sheds for exactly this reason (theft). I can use DNA fingerprinting technology to track both the original C. w. amabilis and their offspring (through paternity testing) when they turn up (and they eventually will...be it one week from now or ten years for now). I will also pursue filing charges in a federal court of law since these snakes were of international origin, and can be identified as such. Lastly, I have photos of most snakes (definitely all the C. w. amabilis).

Please let me know if any of you hear anything related to this theft, and pass along the news. The rattlesnake community is pretty small, and these snakes are high profile (especially the C. w. amabilis).

Thanks!

-Rob

Robert W. Bryson, Jr.

Ph.D. Candidate

Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Section

School of Life Sciences

University of Nevada, Las Vegas

4505 Maryland Parkway

Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-4004

Thats terrible. I live in MO so i probably wont hear anything but if by chance I do, ill sure let you know. Im so sorry that happened to you!

My guess is that these are destined for the overseas market so I would recommend working through every exporter you can think of as they may be able to help with locating the culprit. It would also help to alert all of the herp groups in Europe to let them know. I just put out the word on FB as I have many overseas herp colleagues so hopefully, the more folks that hear of this will be able to provide some info. I feel for you as I don't think I would function if my prized rattlers got stolen. Keep up posted.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>>Last night, 33 montane Mexican rattlesnakes were stolen from my collection housed in Alpine, Texas. Among the snakes were Crotalus willardi amabilis, C. w. silus, C. lepidus maculosus, C. l. morulus, and C. p. pricei. Most were juveniles, except for 4 adult C. w. amabilis and several C. p. pricei. Adults were legally collected and imported from Mexico...the juveniles were offspring from these adults. Despite being in a hurry and working in the dark, the thieves knew which adult
>>
>>C. w. amabilis to take...they left the oldest adults, and stole 2 adult females and 2 adult males. They also knew not to take the ESA-listed C. w. obscurus. They opened several cages containing baby C. w. obscurus, but did not take any. A police report was filed, and numerous sets of fingerprints were obtained from the glass doors on the Vision cages housing the adults. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, I have an extensive collection of shed skins from all snakes in my collection. You can remove pit tags and hide snakes in dark basements, but you can't change a snake's DNA. I have been saving sheds for exactly this reason (theft). I can use DNA fingerprinting technology to track both the original C. w. amabilis and their offspring (through paternity testing) when they turn up (and they eventually will...be it one week from now or ten years for now). I will also pursue filing charges in a federal court of law since these snakes were of international origin, and can be identified as such. Lastly, I have photos of most snakes (definitely all the C. w. amabilis).
>>
>>
>>
>>Please let me know if any of you hear anything related to this theft, and pass along the news. The rattlesnake community is pretty small, and these snakes are high profile (especially the C. w. amabilis).
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>-Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>Robert W. Bryson, Jr.
>>
>>Ph.D. Candidate
>>
>>Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Section
>>
>>School of Life Sciences
>>
>>University of Nevada, Las Vegas
>>
>>4505 Maryland Parkway
>>
>>Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-4004
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

My advice would be to alert USFWS about the theft. I would suggest doing this ether thru an attorney or on local law enforcement letterheads. I received this info this morning and have advised the few rare venomous customers I have internationally. Snakes such as those would have to go to only a very few people worldwide because of the value. I actually believe that whoever did this likely intends to keep them rather than sell them. Also it goes without saying IT HAS TO BE SOMEONE WHO IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE STOCK AND THE FACILITY. In other words likely a friend of the person that had the snakes and likely someone who has been there many times. I hate to say this but likely a close friend...I hope these snakes are recovered unharmed....If the theft had strictly been for profit the selectivity of the snakes would have been different. For instance the age wouldn't have mattered on the stolen snakes [also implies intimate knowledge of the stock] as they would have been sold regardless of age. The little I know about it suggest they were stolen by someone well known to the owner and were stolen to keep rather than sell. Just my two cents worth...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I have spread the word with a lot of Hot Keepers in Texas.

Hopefully those responsible for this are caught soon.
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Tim Cole
www.austinherpsociety.org
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

This is a great example of how good, honest herp keepers can come together to help each other out. Lets catch this thief!

I got the email list from Tim Cole the other day. I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. Our community is small- especially those of us who love montane mexican rattlers- hopefully they'll resurface/get returned soon.

I've passed on the info to all my hot keeper friends also.

Graham
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this nail .....inside job........i don't think you'll see these again....sad....may surface in foreign market....but the buyer may have contracted the guy to steal 'em.....this didn't just happen....probably been in the planning stage for a while....

Hopefully they will be caught and known to everyone. Unfortunately law enforcement probably doesn't put stolen rattlesnakes at the top of their list-even rare-high dollar ones or if they do, they might lack the manpower to follow all the leads quickly. A team of experienced detectives would probably solve this case within 48 hours just by following what must be some pretty obvious leads. Certainly the FBI would solve this immediately. Good luck!

My whole collection was stolen back in 02. I reported the guys name and a detailed list of what was stolen($15k worth of snakes)many one of a kind morphs to the Virgina Beach Police. I got a tip at Daytona when I found one of my snakes ON A TABLE! The fellow sold my collection to a pet store he used to work at and had the check made out in his MOM's name. I went to the store and found some of my one of a kind animals still there for sale....and was told by law enforcement that the only way for me to get them back would be to PURCHASE them from the store, if the police siezed them they would be KILLED and preserved as evidence!! After this "incident", and me being from out of state, they REFUSED to prosecute despite an open and shut case because....they were "only snakes". Good luck.

Unbelievable, Jeff. How chickensh*t is that!?!? Evidently "protect and serve" doesn't apply to snakeowners.
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Venomous snakes---best hobby on earth!
Bill Huseth

I used to be a police officer in Tucson. In your case we simply would have photographed the snakes as evidence and then had you sign the evidence sheet stating the property had been given back to owner due to perishable nature.

What would the cops you dealt with have done in the case of a stolen dog or cat. Or horse! That's all just wrong!

Rich

Maybe thats the way it works in Tuscon, but thats not the way it works in VA beach. They have a guy from out of state(me) pressing charges on another guy who moved to California(Joe) and changed his name.... The pet store had a reciept for the "stolen merchandise" but its not "stolen" til its proved in court. They refused to take the case to court because they didnt think anyone would show up on either side and the only "loser" in the game would be the local pet shop. I know its not right, we all do, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen. It did. It likely will again, somewhere else. Just because you were once an officer...you know, nevermind. Its obvious enough to the rest of us.
I found him at his mom's house visiting a couple years ago and knocked his door. He was scared sh*tless, and he called the cops! The police escorted me off his moms property with a very memorable statement....and I quote "the laws are made to protect the criminals".

you misunderstood. I was saying it was a crock of sh876t as to how those cops handled the case, not doubting your story.

Rich

WHAT??
I know what I would have done. Anyone watch the show "Dexter"?
J/K I wouldnt kill anyone who stole $15K worth of my blood, sweat and tears.
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1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Mollie"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie"

Has there been any updates.It has been long enough to know something.There has got to be a short list of possible suspects involved here .
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Archie Bottoms

Crotalus pricei pricei 6 were taken

Crotalus lepidus morulus 7 were taken

Crotalus lepidus maculosus 4 were taken

Crotalus willardi silus 7 were taken

Crotalus willardi amabilis 8 were taken

Crotalus lepidus klauberi 5 were taken (very unique Mexican local of klauberi )
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Looks to be over 60,000 dollars in snakes.Mabie much more man I hope they catch them before any are lost.
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Archie Bottoms

Must of been someone who had a lot of exposure to your facility & staff. I don't think the motive was monetary though. Professional jealousy seems a likely motive.

Matthew

n/p