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Is there a 100% sure way of telling them apart?

Is a scale count relaiable?

Any chance of pictures of adult Gaigei to compare to mine?

Thanks in advance for your replies

Peruvians are often bigger and heavier snakes with thicker and darker dark markings however, there is enormous variation in color and pattern of both subspecies. Scale counts are the only reliable method to differentiate them. Epicrates cenchria gaigei have 41 to 43 scale rows at midbody. Epicrates cenchria cenchria have 45 or more.

This is one of my adult female Peruvians.

>>This is one of my adult female Peruvians.

NOW THAT IS BEAUTIFUL...yep had to yell it lol!!!

beautiful jeff!!!!!!!
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Thanks Jeff, is that count using the normal arrow sharped count or straight acrossed, I have some "Gaigei" that scale count 45 but look the smae as your picture, with the thicker dark lines etc? Very confusing
Thanks again for your help

The count is done diagonally. I have 5 snakes that are like your snake. 45 scale rows at midbody but with very wide, very dark markings like my adult gaigei. Perhaps they are the result of a cross of the two subspecies. Many of the snakes that have been sold as Peruvians are actually Brazilians. I also do not discount the possibility that these snakes are true Peruvians but with slightly higher scale counts. They could also be the result of natural intergradation of the two subspecies. Several sources have told me that Rainbow Boas along the edge of the range between the two subspecies have various intermediate scale counts. All of my 45 scale row snakes are from another breeder. Like my brightest red adult gaigei they were very dark and not looking so pretty up until after they were over a year old. 2 others that I got with them are more orange than red and they have 42 and 43 scale rows at midbody. The breeder told me they were from two different litters but did not identify which were from which litter when they were shipped to me. At some point in the near future (if not already) the Rainbow Boas will be reclassified and the snakes we call Peruvians will be lumped in with the Brazilians as the same subspecies. After that we will probably identify them as "Peruvian type" Brazilian Rainbow Boas and the scale counts will not mean much.

This is why i love this forum so much
Great pics, Great people, Great info.

that was quite interesting to me

>>The count is done diagonally. I have 5 snakes that are like your snake. 45 scale rows at midbody but with very wide, very dark markings like my adult gaigei. Perhaps they are the result of a cross of the two subspecies. Many of the snakes that have been sold as Peruvians are actually Brazilians. I also do not discount the possibility that these snakes are true Peruvians but with slightly higher scale counts. They could also be the result of natural intergradation of the two subspecies. Several sources have told me that Rainbow Boas along the edge of the range between the two subspecies have various intermediate scale counts. All of my 45 scale row snakes are from another breeder. Like my brightest red adult gaigei they were very dark and not looking so pretty up until after they were over a year old. 2 others that I got with them are more orange than red and they have 42 and 43 scale rows at midbody. The breeder told me they were from two different litters but did not identify which were from which litter when they were shipped to me. At some point in the near future (if not already) the Rainbow Boas will be reclassified and the snakes we call Peruvians will be lumped in with the Brazilians as the same subspecies. After that we will probably identify them as "Peruvian type" Brazilian Rainbow Boas and the scale counts will not mean much.

or you can say screw the science department when it comes to nomenclature they probably should leave as is and still call them Peruvians, they are obviously different at least visually or call them Peruvian locality brb's and keep them of "pure lineage"...I sometimes hate when they change the nomenclature.

sorry for the little rant lol...
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Frank,
...You are showing your age. We have been in this so long that we remember the reclassifications of the Water Snakes and the Garter Snakes and the Ratsnakes and the Milksnakes and the Kingsnakes and the Chondro Python and then the real Carpet Pythons and it just goes on and on. Some of it makes sense but a bunch of it is just silly and egotistical.
Jeff

>>Frank,
>>...You are showing your age. We have been in this so long that we remember the reclassifications of the Water Snakes and the Garter Snakes and the Ratsnakes and the Milksnakes and the Kingsnakes and the Chondro Python and then the real Carpet Pythons and it just goes on and on. Some of it makes sense but a bunch of it is just silly and egotistical.
>>Jeff

LOL you are right I remember when Water snakes where in Natrix and even then I was thinking they didn't belong in that genera, so some does make sense, but when it doesnt make sense it just annoys me...I am getting old....
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Frank,
...You are right about the Watersnakes. They are very different than the European and Asian Natrix.
Jeff