Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My 7 year old male ball python just shed after being opaque for about 10 days. As is usual, I did a full body check to make sure everything came off smoothly. Eye caps were fine, the back injury was fine (he's a rescue and sometimes has skin stuck to his injury), all dorsal scales came off completely, all ventral scales looked fine, but when I got to his actual vent... what the hell... He has tiny red things, they look like threads, next to his vent. I took him into the bathroom where the lighting is better, and they do come off if I rub them gently with my finger. I pushed back his vent a little with my thumb and there are more on the inside. He is and has always been fed only frozen/thawed, so I would not think they are worms, plus he has a yearly fecal. His spurs are also very weird looking. For lack of a better word, they look necrotic. Very dried up looking and just wrong. Tomorrow I will try to get a picture, I just wanted to post before I go to bed.
I do not handle him much, and there is nothing in his actual enclosure that could have caused these red threads. Tonight I took out his wet box and water dish, dumped the moss from his wet box, cleaned both out and refilled both. I am going to the vet on Tuesday with damn near the rest of my animals, so he gets to come along for the ride. I'm hoping it is nothing, but the spurs really scare me. Just wondering if anyone can shed any light or has had experience with this so I can start to problem solve before Tuesday. My vet is great, but I live in rural Vermont and he does not see many reptiles, so I do like to do my own research and help him brainstorm whenever possible. Thanks in advance.
-----
1.0 rescued ball python
1.1 house rabbits
1.0 significant other
2.0 house cats
0.1 rescued Am. Staff. terrier mix

Couldn't find any of the threads today, and he was uncooperative of me trying to evert anything, but here are his weird looking spurs.

-----
1.0 rescued ball python
1.1 house rabbits
1.0 significant other
2.0 house cats
0.1 rescued Am. Staff. terrier mix

I havn't seen enough ball pythons to really comment on the spurs. It is possible that this is a normal, however uncommon presentation. The key is, if they have changed. What did they look like before? I'm sure others will have more to comment on this.

Does your vet see many other small exotics? Perhaps he may have a smaller endoscope to get a peek inside the cloaca to look for abnormalities. On the other hand, I wouldn't get overly worried about the red threads that you say. I've only rarely seen it myself, but small irritation around the vent after a shed or stool with a bit of bloody mucous is not uncommon. I must stress small amount (as your description seems to agree with), and that it is an inconsistent event. Stool consistency, and frequency should all be normal. Your snake should not be presenting any other abnormal symptoms like anorexia, diarrhea, lethargy, skin tenting/folding etc. If disease or injury is found with your spurs, than perhaps the two events are related.

So this post doesn't offer a whole lot of solid information, but should hopefully get you thinking in the right direction. See www.arav.com for herp vets in your greater area should you think a second opinion is warranted after your initial vet consultation. You can also suggest www.vin.com to your vet if they would like a good networking and reference site for vets. The reptile experts on that site are second to none!

Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery is a good help for a vet interested in seeing reptiles, however for the odd particular case like this, I'm unsure if it would help a whole lot. The main key for vets is to depart the abnormal from the normal. If this case moves beyond that to sample collections and other diagnostics, then this text would be of more use.

I hope all goes well

Ian

He does have large spurs, which is not uncommon for male BP's, but they are thinner and more bony looking than normal. His are usually a little more keratinous-looking... they look a little more like claws on a dog I suppose, rather than bones, which is what they look like right now. I think they just look really dried out.
I think I may have found the problem, in that my UTH hasn't been on for who knows how long--the switch on the power strip was turned off, I probably did it and didn't realize it. So he's only had supplemental heat during the day. We don't keep it cold in our house because I like it warm, so it's not enough to cause serious damage (about 70), but I think if it went on for much longer I'd see some worse effects, possibly necrotic dermatitis from him laying in his wet box.
Now that I've fixed the UTH problem (and going to buy some permanent thermometers when I go out to the vet this week), I wonder if I should just give him a good soak in warm water. I did read on one site to soak a BP in diluted betadine if it is suspected that they have dermatitis, which is the only thing I can think of it possibly being, even though his belly isn't pink, but I'm not sure if that's safe.
I think I will still take him in just to be sure, my vet usually only charges for a recheck even if he hasn't seen the animal in months (he gets a lot of business from me between my cat almost dying at the beginning of the year and my rabbit having cardiomyopathy). Rather be safe than sorry. I'm pretty attached to my cold-blooded son. Thanks for posting, I'll post again with what the vet says on Tuesday.
-----
1.0 rescued ball python
1.1 house rabbits
1.0 significant other
2.0 house cats
0.1 rescued Am. Staff. terrier mix

Having lived in Virginia all my life, up until January of this year anyway, there are so many things I just don't think about when it comes to environment. Virginia (at least the part I'm from) rarely gets below freezing and is humid for much of the year. You can even feel it in the winter, when you take a deep breath and it feels like tiny icicles are stabbing your lungs. Apparently, it is that lack of extra humidity that is causing Xerxes' problems.
Dr. Bruce said that he is not dehydrated, just slightly under hydrated. He does have a wet box and a large water bowl. He spends about 60-70% of his time in the wet box, but I never see him soaking in the bowl. So the remedy is simply to give him a good soak once a week during the winter. I'm also buying a couple of thermometer/hygrometer digital probes today, so I can monitor him better.
-----
1.0 rescued ball python
1.1 house rabbits
1.0 significant other
2.0 house cats
0.1 rescued Am. Staff. terrier mix

I'm happy everything seems to be going well. To answer your earlier question, yes it is fine to use dilute betadine on your snake. Avoid the mouth, heat pits and internal exposure (like the cloaca if not tightly closed). Rinse off well. Another option is to use chlorhexadine, which has a slightly better spectrum of activity (if I recall correctly), and does not stain the skin like betadine before it is diluted.

If you don't already offer one, I'd also provide a dry hide box. That way your snake doesn't have to be in a moist hide if it wants to be secluded.

Take care,

Ian

It is best to use the diacetate form of chlorhexidine, but like all forms of chlorhexidine, it must be diluted before use. This form must be diluted down to a 0.05% solution before use or you can cause further tissue damage in an open wound. It is also best to use distilled water for dilution purposes as the chlorides in tap water will form a precipitate and lower the effectiveness of the chlorhexidine.

Kelly

Undiluted chlorhexadine (both diacetate, of which I prefer, and gluconate) are used as surgical scrub and for cleaning wounds. The tissue damage is minimal and only noticeable microscopically. The benefits outweight the problems, but Kelly is correct to bring this issue up. I should have mentioned that repeated scrubbing with undiluted chlorhexadine (or h2o2 and many other disinfectants, though I'm unsure about betadine) should be avoided or healing may be delayed. This is another reason why rinsing is always important.

...A last thought on this, and something that I completely ignored because I've never used other products, is that chlorhexadine can be bought in a more pure form from a pharmacy. It's not a cleansing product and I do not know the concentration, so for now, recommend against it.

Ian

Chlorhexidine is never used undiluted for any purposes as it is too damaging to tissue in straight form. The chlorhexidine surgical scrubs are only 4% solutions and must always be rinsed after an allowed short contact time. The 0.05% chlorhexidine diacetate solution I spoke of earlier is for skin and wound disinfection with reptiles and is weak enough that it does not need to be rinsed and actually gives a slight residual antimicrobial action. Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) should never be used for wound cleansing as it actually slows the healing process by damaging the cells involved with tissue regeneration.

Betadine solution is one of the best disinfectants available as it has a very wide antibacterial spectrum of activity and also has virucidal activity. One big plus is that it does not affect tissue and therefore should never be rinsed after use. It is also non-staining to skin and other tissues.

Kelly

"Chlorhexidine is never used undiluted for any purposes as it is too damaging to tissue in straight form"

Perhaps this is what I heard of that was available at the pharmacy. lol, I was considering the 4% solution "undiluted" as that's the only way I've actually seen it. Is the straight form commonly available in the US?

Ian

I don't recall ever seeing it for sale in highly concentrated form.

Kelly