Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When you click onto Kingsnake you see a lot of advertising. I see headlamps for sale. When I clicked on to come to the kingsnake forum these things catch my eye. Kingsnake is in business to make a profit. Here is a copy of part of an email I just caught.

I couldn't agree with you more on the last post thread you sent to Joe Forks. I learned my lesson and won't be showing off any snakes on that forum.

There are others that are calling me, and sending me emails suggesting the same thing. Can you imagine a new guy being directed to this forum. I don't see a lot of repeat posts from new guy's here. They probably never click on "KINGSNAKE WAR FORUM AND KANGEROO COURT AGAIN". I am talking about things that are said to other people. I cringe when I read some of the stuff said. Sounds a lot like little kids. The venom and accusations will chase many people away. Not fun to come to this forum anymore for many people. I would bet that most of the guys who post here buy from friends and other collectors. So the real business is being chased away. I would not want anyone doing this on my forum or business. I would want it to make more money. It is OK to question things once in awhile. Sure!! But be civil about it. Thanks... Ric

some new kid getting on here to look for advise on gray-banded kingsnakes. I think he will look for another venue or another site. Ric

>>I couldn't agree with you more on the last post thread you sent to Joe Forks. I learned my lesson and won't be showing off any snakes on that forum.

Obviously someone misrepresenting some mutts as pure bred.

The point that gets lost in all of this, is that no one cares if you want to breed your nine east with your nine north, but when you try to say it's pure-bred and it's not then it turns into the War forum.

So my advice would be do your research and don't misrepresent your animals. haha

BTW I'm getting plenty of e-mails too, and I can't repeat what most of them are saying. I tried to verify a few things you said on the phone and got very different stories too Ric.

So it seems like this is a giant merry go round, and it's not going to quit spinning until you step off.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I thought this was cleared up. Here's the post.

Posted by: ddoherty at Mon Oct 12 20:00:23 2009 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by ddoherty ]

This thread was recently brought to my attention. I will make one and ONLY ONE post on this topic - don`t want to get into a "he said, she said...." I will only list pertinent FACTS. I will not include any conclusions, make any assumptions, contect the dots, fill in the blanks... To quote Dragnet`s Joe Friday - "just the facts".
1)In the mid 1990s, I had a breeding trio of wc 9 mile Sandersons. I caught one of these animals, Gerry Salmon caught one, and Joe Forks caught one.
2) I produced a bunch of babies from this group.
3) A bunch of people acquired these babies from me.
4) Years later, one of these people (my good friend Ric Blair) produced some anery alternas.
5)I have never been involved in a breeding agreement with Buzz Ross (human or sub-human).

These are undisputable facts. Elaborating beyond these basic facts would just lead to....... well, you know.
Happy herpin.
David D

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Steve W.

others disagree.

You can use any locality for an example though.

For instance. No one cares if you want to breed your Huecos with your Black Gaps but when you misrepresent them as pure-bred then this turns into the war forum.

My advice is to not misrepresent your animals.

See Steve, the point is the same now matter what localities used in the example.

Want me to use another set of localities so that you can understand it further?
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

No one cares if you want to breed your micropholis with honderensis but when you represent them as pure you can expect to start a war.

My advice is not to misrepresent your animals.

OK did you get the point that time? Or do you want me to keep going?
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I understand what you're saying and you don't have to speak slowly either. Unless you're keeping something to yourself it seems that the founding stock of 9 milers came from Dave, Gerry and yourself. What am I missing? Can you fill in the blanks if there are any?
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Steve W.

Maybe you need to look beyond the words written on the page.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

i guess my son & daughter are mutts.....sicily locale crossed with pa dutch....or south philly x lebanon, pa(not the mideast country)....this is a joke...laugh yoose bastages.....

The better looking that snake becomes. So much for familiarity breeding contempt...LOL.

Robert

coming down the dirt, and there was this guy hanging out the window of Le''s 4x4 white van. I was asking Tiny, who da heck was that???? You tell me what year that was!
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I think some will be scared off just be the extra care that it requires to keep an Alterna. Sure, some posts will offend some folks. Others will understand that they need to do research before buying animals. If you look beyond the animal locality post there are those willing to try to answer questions that are above and beyond locality related. Most are weary of answering questions about sick snakes because most we are not vets and therefore not really qualified to do that. We always see posts about getting new snakes to feed and someone always chimes in with advice.

I would agree that this forum can get aggressive at times. I am as guilty of that as anyone. Locality aside this forum has lots of nice info to assist hobbyist.

Take Care,
StevenX

I keep waiting on my name to come up somewhere, I feel left out...

The way I see it, our collections may be built on locality data, but our community is built on trust and respect. Right now the community is being taken apart and that is a real shame.... no matter who has what reason to do it.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

I just think you may have scared a few off with your Halloween costume..LOL.

I just think you may have scared a few off with your Halloween costume..LOL.

Are you sure it was a costume?
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Be careful Lance, you might get your buddy down on Juno pretty excited....LOL.

My wife thinks next Halloween I should go as princess Leia... for the biggest impact it was suggested I go dressed in the outfit from Jabba's palace.

But, to keep the natives from getting restless here just know that I am not ready to go that far myself.

And no, the picture is not me, but it is close enough and close as I think it will ever get

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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

That is so funny and disturbing... you are ruining such a good fantasy... do you know how many geeks think about the p-lea costume????

Later Homie and have a good holiday! We will hang this weekend.

StevenX

Now thats hitting below the belt. Or would that be grabbing. Sorry for that one . lol
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Steve W.

DOH!
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Todd Hughes

Very well said. This is out of control.

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Steve W.

can one collect kielbasa on the ROW??????

Don't know. Depends on if they're inverts or not.
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Steve W.

if your kielbasa has a hard chitonous shell and is crawling around, you shouldn't be out on the cuts, you should be at your doctors'!!!
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Todd Hughes

I REMEMBER. I may be getting old but, it seems to me that it was the spring of 1978 or 1979.

Naked guy, can you confirm? That was the same year that was your first trip to Langtry. I remember well that Lee had put you onto 3 adult male dark (fuguly)blairs. Yous guys also found a bunch of other stuff. I on the other hand had not seen a snake all nite until you and he came down the dirt road and threw a handful of stuff in the road for me and my son to scamper around after. I still think they were the only snakes we saw all nite. Those were the good ole days. Too bad they are gone!!!!!!!

ECT

it was before the law on a memorial day weekend....the delaware kid was staying in those cabins behind the phillips 66 station .... our first one was caught at about 730(sun was still up) on 90 (before the improvements) in front of perry chalk's ranch.....lee couldn't stop the van cause an empty beer can(schlitz) rolled under the brake pedal....caught a bunch of things....caught mexicana fever....they weren't fugly....least not then....everybody had a cb....lee was the rock rattler...

'76 or '77....before the drought....

I'll tell ya' what, thrown in around all the stuff are the true nuggets, the stuff that got me going. The stories, man, the stories of all youse crazy bastages catching so many dark fugly Langtrys' then runnin' nekkid through the thornscrub,sleeping through the heat in a drainage pipe or under the car, or at the tipi, lmao! Forgetting to throw your cars and trucks into park as you raced for the snake! The wettest year, the floods, the droughts, how it affected animal movements. The donkey lady, others. A lot of the camaraderie that hunters shared with each other, all that is over with for the time being. Enjoy those memories for what they were, moments in time, for now, it will be tighter groups hunting private property and very cliquish. And really, that's the way it always has been, it was fun to meet new people, and still is, but you don't trust them as you would your hunting partner(s). And the indoor breeders will never understand these parts anyway, it's just lore lost to them, they do their research at herp shows and the net. If you ever get a chance to go out there, do it, it WILL change how you see things, at least it should. This other stuff is part of the whole, and I am sure there will be some people that don't want any part of it, old and new, but this forum is the original, and best out there for any info on alterna, all the folks that contributed, here or not, are immortalized in the pages of the Alterna Forum, and the info was/is the best. I would only hope that everyone on this forum, whether they hunt or not, would do their part to put the road ban under the bus, and band together so that we can add new blood to the old lines and squabble about that, lmao! You will definitely see some new localities next season, I can guarantee you that! And some new, old locality, first time breedings. We will see what happens. that is all, carry on!

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Todd Hughes

I met Brian Box years ago. He was the one that really got me into snake breeding. I used to love the stories his dad Lee told. I have a few myself. I feel good inside when I think of some of the snake hunting advintures I have had. I can sure relate to those I read on here of times gone by.
I have not seen Brian or his dad in many years but thank them and mostly Brian for having helped me into the breeding of snakes. His idea of what is locality is real strict. It gave be a good start to what has been good for me. I have had some ups and downs in life but always gravitate to reptiles. It is in the blood. We don't owe anyone an apology for that.
I feel the Government should support us and not try to crush us with our owen money. We never hurt anyone but they are hurting us. Why?
Anyway, some of us will never give up the old ways because it is just who we are heart mind and soul.
WOW! That was some deep stuff! LOL!
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Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~

and that is another reason for this forum, to allow a place to air your feelings, one way or the other. We all have a right to an opinion. West Texas is deeper than anywhere I have been, well, the Santa Ritas are deep, but in reverse, lol!
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Todd Hughes