Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was highly anticipating my purchases @ Daytona for a couple different snakes. I bought a very nice JCP from Leary, and two BCI's, one het for anery that looked awesome. One breeder of Bliss is a very well known and respected member of the boa community and has produced some very nice animals. They are also a big lobbyist for purity which I really appreciated, so I was looking forward to purchasing an animal from them. I bought a boa after searching through all of his Bliss I didn't have allot of time to stay and chat but I felt very good with the purchase.

I got back to the hotel room and checked out my snakes a little more closely. The Leary JCP was in great health and bit the hell out of me repeatedly. Cute little bugger. My BCI het for Anery was in absolute perfect condition. But my other little BCI from the breeder mentioned above was very sluggish, slow moving. It wasn't that it looked malnourished, more so like it had some underlying disorder. I thought it was probably dehydrated from the trip to the show, and gave it water which it gulped down in huge quantities. I had faith that with the breeders reputation it would be better after getting it home, and acquainted for a few days it would be ok. It was not.

I attempted to feed it and it ate nothing more than a fuzzy mouse, wouldn't take anything bigger which I though was peculiar. It seems like it would tilt its head to the right when it was crawling and has a problem with regular locomotion, strait out refuses food, and it remains to this day obviously sluggish, almost as if it has some neurological damage. After noticing that this wasn't going to get better I decided I should email the breeder and ask if he would have some kind of advice, explanation, or compensation. In the past with Yasser, Will, Matt, etc I have had no problem getting questions answered and they go out of their way to make it right. This is what I wrote to the breeder:

Hello **** this is Keoni. I bought a pretty Columbian female from you at Daytona that looked fantastic and at the time couldn't pass up for 50 dollars. Soon after getting it back to the hotel I noticed it was very sluggish and slow moving. I was concerned but thought it may have been dehydrated so I gave it water which it drank in large amounts. I had hoped that upon my return home and its adjusting to its new environment it would improve but it did not. I keep it as I keep my other small BCI which is a gradient of 76- 91 degrees in a rack. It ate one small meal and has since refused all food offerings, even with different methods/prey items. This boa is gorgeous but its slow demeanor and unwillingness to feed has me thinking its not going to recover. Thoughts or suggestions?

My question is to the breeders/hobbiest, how would you respond to this email? I will let you know the unexpected email I recieved after I get some diverse feedback thanks.
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

I am not sure how B.C.I's got turned into "Bliss" but it did.
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

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Takes all kinds to make a World...

What I meant was, what as a breeder would your reply have been to my email?
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

>>What I meant was, what as a breeder would your reply have been to my email?

Sorry. Well...I'd tell you to take it to your Herp Vet and see if they can help you figure out whats wrong...Then I'd tell you if the vet can't help and or the condition continues I would take it back and exchange it for a comparable animal.

Biggest thing is I don’t think there is much you can do at this point other than go see a specialist. I had a Coachwhip snake a year and a half ago that had simular symptoms(I’d have to see your snake to be sure but your description reminded me of my snake’s behavior). She was healthy and eating for 3-4 months then one day we noticed her head swinging severely to the left when she tried to move. Kind of like one side of her body was paralized or not working properly. She ate once after she got sick and then she didn’t seem to ‘see’ her food anymore. We finally had to put her down. I’m pretty sure we were keeping her correctly and I know that she didn’t get too hot because she fell ill early spring. It could have been parasites I suppose but her behavior struck me more like she had a stroke. Anyways, I’m not sure if this helps but I thought I’d share…

Darci
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Takes all kinds to make a World...

Thanks Darci, that sounds professional. What bothers me is I had admired this breeders work for a long time and for a long time I had planned on getting a pair of higher end animals from him. If he would have handled it like you suggested I would have no problem. After his correspondence with my friend and I, I am not so sure.
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

I still suggest taking it into a reputed Herp vet especially if its looking like you might be stuck with it no matter what. If nothing else it may shed some light on just how bad your little boas condition really is, and if its curable...Best of luck!

Darci
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Takes all kinds to make a World...

"I have no idea what could be the problem.

Good luck with that"

Maybe I am too demanding, but I expected perhaps just a bit more than that. I know if someone was planning on investing 500 more dollars, I would take them a little more seriously. Lost this customer.
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

Did he offer some sort of guarantee on the animal? If not it was probably sold as is and your out of luck. Now I put myself in this breeders shoes and it could work two ways. If I knew that the snake wasn't right and sold it anyway I would have first told you, but then returned your money if you had any problem. Now if I thought the snake was in perfect health when I sold it I would tell you that it was sold healthy and unless you have a letter from a vet there is nothing i can do. For all he knows your doing something wrong. I'm not saying you are at fault, but you can't blame him unless he knew the snake was unhealthy.

I want to make sure that my highly irritated state is warranted. Thanks for the feedback, more is welcome
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

sounds like this snake may have got black mites somewhere along the line. That can lead to weird neurological problems (twisting of the head, aimless reverse locomotion). If the mites are gone, the snake can live with these problems. I know of an adult blood that has lost the mites, but for the two years since he still twists his head in weird ways. The blood doesnt seem to want to throw in the towel just yet, so you might have luck. On another note, i could be comepletely WRONG! So you should take it to the vet like everyone usually says, it made me feel a whole hell of a lot better. I didnt really care about the money that i wasted if the animal died, i have a strong connection with snakes as pets and its disheartening to watch snakes suffer and eventually die.
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"People change and your changing"
Seals and Crofts 1976

If I have received this email I would first show that I am concerned about you and the boa. I would then discuss with you what feeding strategies you have used, what your cage set up is, and also have you raise the temps a bit and handle it as little as possible. I would also discuss with you taking it to a vet. A lot of breeders have websites that have terms & conditions of purchase that tell how these situations are handled.

Good Luck
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Jaremy Douglas

Didn't you handle and inspect the snake before purchasing it? Was it lethargic then?

Whether you’re buying widgets or living creatures, it is good practice to inform the seller about a suspected problem as soon as possible after you become aware of it. In this case, you said you became concerned as soon as you got back to your hotel room. So, I guess I would have written a short note detailing my concerns, sealed it in one of those envelopes the desk in a hotel room always contains, and turned around and headed straight back to the show. If I couldn’t find the seller in person, I would request that the person staffing his booth give the seller your message (sealed in that envelope so you wouldn’t be spreading his and your business all over creation).

You didn’t indicate in your post how many days or weeks passed before you emailed the seller. I would have done this immediately after I returned home. And I would have set this animal up in the strictest quarantine I could manage. Since it ate once, I would keep an eye out for a stool sample which I could take to my vet for a fecal analysis.

Okay. So now I would have really covered all my bases up to this point – from a warranty point of view, from the future health of this boa’s point of view, and from the health of the rest of my collection’s point of view. Now it would be in the seller’s court. I guess I’m mixing my sports metaphors here, but I think you get the point.

I know it is easy to wag a finger at you and say as one poster did: “Didn't you handle and inspect the snake before purchasing it? Was it lethargic then?” Even if we were all skilled diagnosticians, we would likely make errors in this sort of environment where you peer at animals in deli cups or handle them for a few minutes before purchase. And, yes, the reputation of the breeder often counts for a lot when making a decision. I’d imagine there are people who purchased animals for thousands of dollars at Daytona this year who are wringing their hands with worry right now.

I’d bet that a fair number of people reading your post have experienced this issue from BOTH sides and, not knowing any more about the actual people or facts, can sympathize with each.

Good luck,
Joan