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Update on long post below. (VERY LONG)

Wallbanger26 Nov 27, 2009 05:00 PM

Once again I am sorry if I pissed anyone off. I don't want to start another epic thread and I don't feel like getting abused (LOL) again. If you have something you want to share this time feel free to email me personally. I WILL NOT disclose the sellers name as I am still seeking a resolution. I will post it wherever it is I'm supposed to after the outcome. Hopefully I'll have good things to say. This is a copy of the email I just received.

Wayne-
Like many tens of millions of Americans, I was gone from Wednesday night til this morning, so sorry for the delay in responding. As a general rule, I only get online 2 to 3 times per week to check my email, so I am not one of those guys "twiddling my thumbs" sitting by the computer waiting for emails to come in...as I said, I am extremely busy, and always do my best to respond as promptly as possible (which has not been fast enough for you, and I am sorry for that); this is one reason why I am downsizing my collection, to free up some time. So, I am getting back to you now at my earliest moment, and sincerely apologize for what you have perceived as a "lack of communication" on my part.

I am sorry to read of your dissatisfaction in the animals you received. You are obviously a "Nervous Nellie" type and I can appreciate that and I understand you have had issues in the past. Let me address the matter...

First off, you mention the fact that you had a deal- completely unrelated to the deal between the two of us- where you were selling the het females to a friend of yours. While I admire your entreprenuerial spirit, that transaction has nothing to do with me, is indeed none of my business, and in fact has no bearing in our deal. By your logic (of me owing you $xxx lost from what you would have made if he was going to buy them), if you were selling them for $xxxx each, then I would owe you $xxxx, or if he only wanted to pay you $xx each, then I would owe you $xxx. I dont really follow that part...frankly, whether they were ~700 grams or ~300, they wouldnt breed in 2010, as you know, and their actual current weight wouldnt affect their "breedability" in 2011.

Regarding the animals and my "claims/misrepresenting" them, as you say....
I told you on 11/17 that "the male is a proven breeder, the females are about 700 grams or so. All eat great on live or FT rats or mice....genetics are 100% guaranteed." Then, "if you need exact weights, let me know." You did not request exact weights, which I would have been happy to provide. What I gave you was a COMPLETELY HONEST GUESS of what I THOUGHT they weighed, based on how big I felt they were in my memory. I was at the computer, and nowhere near the animals, so I could only go on memory as I was typing. Again, I would have been happy to have weighed them upon request, you would have just had to wait a couple of days. I am apparently not very good at such guesswork, if your scale is correct, and I apologize for that, but I did honestly NOT intentionally mislead you in any way, period. Anybody who knows me will tell you I am a very honest person who would never purposely mislead anybody. So I am sorry about accidentally mis-stating the weights of the girls. Again, however, I am not responsible for any side deals you are involved in, and the weight discrepancy will not have any effect on when they breed or their size. Regarding the male, HE IS INDEED A PROVEN BREEDER; I bred him this summer and produced a couple of clutches of Pastels het Axanthic and Spider het Axanthic. I have successfully bred males as low as 352 grams before, although yes, 800 or more grams is ideal, as you mentioned. As I said, I have been low on food for awhile; it had been probably 3-4 weeks since they fed, and all had defecated recently before they were shipped. As you will note, these animals have FANTASTIC feeding responses; like a retic, they are coming at you as you open their container, so when you ask "how do I know they arent problem feeders", I would just say, you will know immediately; as I say, they will eat anything....live, FT, rats, mice....that you put in front of them. If you have ample food supply, you could get that male up to 600grams by New Years, easily. And yes, I do stand behind the genetics of the het females 100%, and will happily send you a written agreement saying so.

Wayne, as you know, the male Axanthic- just by himself- is worth $xxx-xxxx, which they have been posted at recently on Kingsnake.com. You knew you were getting a great price at $xxx even if it was just the male. I was basically throwing in the females for free at that price; I was simply trying to move some inventory and free up some money. I appreciate your desire to offset the cost of the male by selling the girls, effectively lowering your cost on the male to only $xxx, a savings of about xx% off retail value. I admire this strategy, and have employed it myself in the past. Since your friend is no longer interested, what you have is something actually much better...a male that is proven that you can breed THIS season and produce lots of hets and double or triple-cross animals, and a couple of nice females with EXCELLENT feeding responses that will eat ANYTHING and that youll be able to breed in 2011 and produce probably 5-8 axanthics or so (based on punnet square probabilities). Please throw in a meal with them today or tomorrow, and you'll see what I mean regarding their feeding response (watch your fingers)! Please get back to me to let me know if you would like a formal written genetic guarantee on the females, which I will happily and promptly mail or email to you, your choice. I will be back online either later tonight or early Saturday morning, or as you may know my number is

End Email. this is my favorite line..... and the weight discrepancy will not have any effect on when they breed or their size..... how does the weight discrepency NOT have any effect on their size????? Their weight and size ARE THE EXACT SAME THING!!!

Anyway. I hope some of you who didn't understand my LARGE amount of frustration can get a better grasp on it now. This guy makes no sense with his justifications and points. Not to mention his thinking 400grams won't affect when they breed. Bottom line is he didn't send me what he advertized and flat out admitted it.

Wayne

Replies (5)

kingofspades Nov 27, 2009 06:45 PM

You know...there are such things as private emails.
None of us really care about everyone's dirty laundry.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Wallbanger26 Nov 27, 2009 08:27 PM

I was going to send this directly to you, but I figured this is now the laundry-o-matic! You know there is a such thing as an open forum? Judging by everyone's advice and opinions, there are a bunch of people who do care. I don't understand why people here are so judgemental? If I wasn't asked by several to post the outcome I wouldn't even be in this forum anymore. I'll make sure to clear my posts through you for now on KofS. I didn't realize you spoke for everyone here on kingsnake.

For the record, I'm not getting defensive this time, I'm just being a jerk..... every nice response has been e-mailed to me personally as I asked, it figures the derogatory one would get posted here.

JYohe Nov 27, 2009 09:26 PM

I didn't even get half way through that crap....damn sam....
long talk means ....long talk.....cough......anyways...

females are 700 grams does in NO way mean 300 gram females are ok.......

............and I got 300 gram snakes ? that are 09's I bet......and I see 08's at 250 grams in classifieds....it makes me really wonder why....

.anyways.......buy in person......screw the mailmen....

..
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...(______________________)

PHLdyPayne Nov 27, 2009 11:00 PM

The seller did state he would be happy to provide accurate weights, so that there was a good indication he wasn't 100% sure on the actual weights of the animals at the point of negotiating the sale.

If all the snakes are healthy and eat well, they will get up to proper breeding weights in no time, so maybe no breeding this season but next season they will be ready. Guess what you can do in the future is ask for pictures of the actual snakes being sold on a scale, so their weights can be seen...(assuming the guy doesn't cheat by miss aligning the scale...or adding weights that are not seen in the picture to give the illusion they are at that particular weight. But I don't think most breeders would do that anyway.

That said, definitely can understand your frustration, especially in the initial post where people jumped all over you for not immediately slamming the selling on the BOI or on other sites, or giving away the seller's name in the forum here, which is against TOS. People do have to remember discussion and debate are fine, but it must remain within TOS and not resort to pointless finger pointing and name calling (or 'flaming' as its called in netspeak).

The seller certainly could be more specific, saying at the initial sale he did not know the exact weights of the animals...instead of taking a wildly inaccurate guess. In that way he was in the wrong. Its never good to guess some things, when accuracy tends to be very important. Me personally, can't understand why so many breeders want to rush their animals to breed, putting needless stress on not just females but males as well. Every time I see pictures of huge 3000g females being bred by a tiny 400g male...I keep wondering when I will see a post titled 'My female ate my male!' Waiting one more season isn't the end of the world people.
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PHLdyPayne

Bolitochrome Nov 29, 2009 07:02 PM

I don't have much experience eyeballing the weight of a snake, but if he can't see the difference between 300 and 700, I'd wonder just how often he looked at these snakes.

Anyway, I do not need the seller's name or identity. Thank you for keeping us updated on this as a warning to all buyers and a head's up to all sellers. This will help me be more conscience of the information I provide to customers and what I should ask for when I purchase.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

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