Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everybody! So I was looking around on the web to see if any new info had arisen on the keeping and breeding of the prasinus group, which I routinely do. I looked on this forum and to my surprise found a thread where some of you talk about my vids. Some of you I recognised from another forum I'm on and some I didn't. Anyways, I recently did a vid on my female GTMonitor following me and posted it on the other forum but thought some of you from this one might like it too.
She starts following me upstairs and I pull out my phone and start filming. My kids start coming up the stairs and she pauses for a few secs and then resumes. She follows me down the hall and then climbs up my leg. Enjoy!

Great video! I really appreciate that you put your videos online. I recently acquired my first two tree monitors, V. Macraei. They are both captive hatched imports and I was curious as to how acclimated to people they would become. Based on everything I had read and heard through word of mouth I thought at best they wouldn't run and hide every time I entered the room and maybe eat off tongs. I was nervous about stressing them out but after seeing your videos I figured I would try to be more interactive with them. Now, just like the other monitors I have kept they come to the front of the cage when they are hungry and are feeding from tongs and my hand. One of them even will crawl onto my arm and wait to be fed. I don't know if I will ever get them to where yours is but I am a lot more optimistic about the level of interaction I will be able to have with them. V. Prasinus are my next project down the road!

I hope to see more of your videos. You are obviously doing something right so it would be great if you could share some of your husbandry practices to compare notes with, ie diet, cage set up etc.

Thanks!

Steve - sdi

Thanks guys, I'm glad you like the vids!

Hi Steve after reading about your monitors I'd say they can become just like mine. Especially the one that already climbs up your arm Before I got mine I thought they were going to be shy and skittish too. It wasn't hard to get them to trust me at all. Really I think whatever fear they had was overrode by curiousity. They are the most curious monitors I've ever seen.

I'm no expert, I got my first one this year in April, a CBB baby male and the second one a month later, a WC juv female. The first one really was not afraid at all and wanted to come out all the time, starting on the day he arrived in the mail. The second one took a week before she acted just like the male and was fully comfortable with me. She is the one in the vid I will make a vid when I have time about my gtmonitors and how they became the way they are and what I did to help along the way.

My husbandry, again I'm no expert but I am a research-a-holic. I read books, surfed the net and talked to people.

Cage:90 gallon with foil covering all screen to trap in heat and humidity. 6x4x2 wood & plexiglass being built(details are still being worked out).

Lighting:Zoomed Reptisun UV 5.0 across the whole top, 2 basking lamps.

Substrateamp moss

Hides:Bird house for med size parrots placed high up in a corner, the original perch was replaced with a thick stick perch to support their weight(perch is same thickness of their bodies). It's filled with moss and they sleep in it together every night
I also have vines,plants and branches they can climb on and go in and out of.

Water:Mist at least 5 times a day for drinking and to help humidity. I have a water dish big enough for them to fit in but they rarely drink from it and never go in it.

Temps:Basking 120-130 degrees, mid 70's on cool side, 90's on warm side. Heat emitter for night time heat.

Humidity:70%-100%

Diet:Lobster roaches,crickets and superworms. They will not eat anything else I offer. I do not offer mice because I read 2 zoo reports of prasinus dying after getting septicemia from eating rodents. I plan on feeding birds as an alternative.(yeah, I'm paranoid)

Feeding:As much as they want every day. Usually about a dozen insects for each monitor. I try to give more than one type of insect everyday. Example each one will eat 2 superworms,5 roaches and the rest crickets. They eat from a bowl or my fingers(I used to use tongs for roaches but have gotten over a little of my disgust enough to touch them now,lol!)

Supplements:Calcium without vit D3 once a week and multi vitamins with vit D3 once a month.

Handling: Every day when they want out, only 10-15 minutes at a time. I figured since my house is not hot or humid I'd better not hold them any longer than that at a time.

Vet care:Both were taken in for physical exams and fecals when first purchased. Fecals were done until 3 in a row (2-3 weeks apart)came back clean. This way I knew they were healthy and parasite free. After this was done I put them together in the same cage.

I think that's everything, if you have questions let me know

Hi Bob, I was lmao when I was reading what you guys were saying about my legs, lol! Too funny! Glad you like the vids too

Your doing a fantastic job!! I have never heard of septicemia assosiated with eating rodents? I have used rodents for years witout any problems that seem to stem from useing them. Prasinus is one that for me was interesting to watch eat an adult mouse F/T of course. They start eating the head as a snake will and then the mouse becomes to large for them, they then take their sharp claws and fillet the mouse open to deflate it and continue to eat the whole mouse. Not something for the faint hearted but displays the intellegence level of these wonderfull lizards/monitors.
Bob

Thanks! I heard about prasinus dying from septicema by eating rodents from my friend in the UK who is a retired exotics vet. She sent me the report of what happened and what they found after I told her I bought my pair of gtmonitors. In the report it says the mice were carrying Streptococcus agalactiae which is sometimes present in rodents but not always. There's no way to tell which rodents are carriers so I just don't wanna take the chance. I guess in other species they are able to fight it but prasinus can't and die from septicemia. I know of a lot of people who feed mice to prasinus and never have any issues but I'm a worry wort!

Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed response!

Sounds pretty similar to how I am keeping mine! I am currently building a 6'L x 3'W x 6.5'H cage based around a turtle tub. I hope to finish it over the holiday break but we will see. Currently, I keep my pair in separate aquariums with similar set ups as yours. I have to keep mine separate at this point due to the difference in size and because one is still going through its three month quarantine. Thus far I have been fortunate that their fecals have come back clean and no mites have been found. I am really happy about this since they are CH imports.

Like you I have limited experience relative to others on this forum, but I am also a "researchaholic" and spend A LOT of time observing them. Two things you might like to know based on my limited experience:

1. Using heat tape under (outside) part of the bottom of my cage has been great to help balance humidity levels and temperatures. I use the heat tape under about 1/3 of the base of the cage. This still allows them to get into a small area in the low 70's at night in the least heated area. They use this area so I believe they benefit from it.

The heat source on the bottom helps release water from the damp substrate. Since heat rises, the humidity and heat go up and the basking light "drives" heat downward for a more even disbursement of humidity and heat. I live in Michigan so it is easy to get dry spots and cold spots in a cage and this balances things out. This also makes it so I mist less often to maintain 70% - 100% humidity, doing it more so the monitors can drink the droplets of water. I plan on running heat tape under the base of my large cage as well. Don't forget to allow adequate air flow between the glass of your aquarium and heat tape if you try this.

2. I feed only "whole foods" except on a couple occasions where I mixed roaches with turkey. When I originally received them, based on my research, I thought insects as the base diet with an appropriately sized mouse once a week for calcium would be perfect. I quickly realized that they will eat what they want when they want. What I noticed is that once they got a taste of the rodents they were less interested in the insects (dubias, crickets and tomato worms) that they used to go after ravenously. I almost had to wean them back on to insects. I have read that, while opportunistic predators, they are primarily insectivorous in the wild. Additionally, I have read that when maintained on higher fat diets such as turkey their longevity could be compromised and they were less likely to reproduce. I would stick as close to their wild diet as possible since yours are clearly healthy. An occasional mouse or baby quail is good though for calcium and for fat which holds water.

I have seen more than a few cases of septicemia from other keepers in the boa and python world. My suggestion there is research your supplier and where their rats are coming from. If you email me I can give you the name of someone I have used for quite some time and with some quite expensive reptiles.

Just thought I would share a couple things with you. I am new to the tree monitors like you so I strongly suggest getting input from more experienced keepers that are on this forum. I would love to hear what they have to say and what you find out.

After all this I have to share a photo of the V. Mcraei I got in October.

Keep posting videos!

Steve - sdi

Thanks for sharing! You sound a lot like me, lol! When I first got my female gtm I had her in a quarantine tank on a stand that had another tank under her. The heat from the lamp below did the same thing your heat tape does under your btm cage. It worked well now that I think about it. With them now together in a bigger tank there is no tank under them or any heat. I currently keep my incubator under their tank but now after reading what you wrote maybe I will put another tank under there instead for under heat. I get nervous using under tank heat mats and tape because I had a bad experience with them. My equipment was faulty and ended up burning the belly of a rescued baby nile monitor I rehabbed. He had buried himself under the substrate and laid on top of the glass where it was. He was fine afterwards but it had burnt him to the point where he had 2 fluid filled blisters. Poor guy! I guess I could try it again and test new equipment on a spare 55 gal tank to make sure it works properly before using it.

With the big cage I'm building I hadn't thought about heating from underneath. I am not sure how that could be done. Are you going to attempt this with the cage you are doing for your btm? When my cage is done, one of the things I would like to put in it is a water feature. Not sure if I am going to buy one or make one myself(I would like it to be filtered as well). This would help with humidity also. I am also contemplating either installing an automatic mister or a fogger. Not sure yet which one I should do. Any thoughts on this? Oh, and one more thing, I want to put in large tree branches but I don't know how I can sterilize such big pieces, do you? BTW, this is my first time building a big cage

The pic of your btm is absolutely stunning! Congrats on getting such a nice specimen!

WHEN YOU BUILD YOUR BIG CAGE, GO WITH A MISTER OR SMALL SPRINKLER SYSTEM... RAIN CYCLES ARE PRETTY IMPORTANT FOR BREEDING TREES. I'M NOT SURE IF YOU PLAN TO BREED BUT JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!

Thanks! I did read somewhere that rain cycles were important for btmonitors. I guess it would make sense that gtmonitors are similar. I wasn't sure which to use because I am home all day to mist them by hand when needed. Having it on a timer would be good for breeding if they need rain cycles

I understand your concern with heat tape. It is good to use extra caution with a glass cage especially.

My large cage is being built around a turtle tub as opposed to a steel trough like the majority of experienced keepers use. A turtle tub is an injection molded trough. The model I have is 25% water and 75% land. Honestly, I am sure that a steel trough is probably the best base. I want to add a drain to the basin and I felt more comfortable working with the plastic material of the turtle tub, plus I already had a turtle tub I was not using. I am not using a wood floor for the cage because of the high amount of water/moisture that is required for the tropical reptiles. Any water that enters the cage will flow to the bottom unless it evaporates first. I figured eventually the bottom would leak, warp, rot or all of the above. Our local pet shop which was featured in Reptiles magazine, meaning they are not a rinky-dink place, has a melamine floored cage for their water dragons and they are having problems with it.

The advantages of the trough style base is water/moisture retention, a nice deep substrate can be held, heat tape can be placed under the troughs (with adequate air flow and protection from water) to heat the substrate and the insects can’t climb up the sides of the steel troughs. Depending on the design they can support the arboreal portion of the cage structure as well. Robin from PE, Mike Stefani (sp?) and Mike Heinrich (sp?) who are on this forum have good photos to illustrate the different designs and options (sorry if I left anyone out).

Another thing that I have not come across being talked about too often is using a material on the interior of the cage that the monitors can climb on. I am looking for a place to find cork, like what is used for cork boards, at a good price. In a large cage it can triple the usable surface area if they can climb on the walls. I have also heard of using burlap or screen. Burlap seems like their toes could get caught and potentially broken. Screen seems like it could get shredded. I am leaning towards cork because it should help with humidity, it looks more natural and I have seen it in some of the cages of the European keepers.

As BRICKZ mentioned I have read and been told that a rain cycle is necessary for breeding. I do not have any experience with this as my BTM’s are still young. I am not holding my breath on being successful, but I am going to try. My best success with reptiles has come from mimicking what more experienced keepers are doing and saying and applying my experience to the specific situation. I am going to make a fogger out of a humidifier, pvc tubing, aquarium tubing and a timer which should cost about $60. Even though I have talked to a lot of people I am going to try and research more about misting systems. Some have said use them, some have said don’t bother. I like the idea of using the combination of a fogger on a timer and a hand sprayer. I like to hand spray reptiles that are more interactive and that I am not as experienced with. It almost “forces” me to learn and understand their behavior. However, I may not be able to duplicate a rainy season as well as misting system. No matter what I wind up doing, droplets of water will be involved because that is the main way my monitors drink.

I am glad you brought humidity because I was thinking about this last night. My theory may be a little goofy but it makes since to me. The low atmospheric pressure that is typical of tropical areas not only provides high humidity but a pressure component as well. Think of a really hot shower or steam room and how hard it is to breath. I am not sure where you live but if you have ever been in 82 degree weather with 70% - 100% humidity, like in south Florida or south Texas,? It is harder to breath, move around and the heat index is actually well into the 100’s. Conversely, think of a cold, low humidity area like where I live in Michigan in the winter. The air is much lighter, it is easier to move around and there is less cardiovascular effort involved. When I go from Michigan to the other extreme it feels like someone put a sand bag on my shoulders and everything moves more slowly for me. Here comes the goofy part: my thought is the “weight or pressure” of the humidity could play a role in security similar to how a tight hiding space does except as a sustained source of pressure. I am going to finish my goofy theory with I have been accused of thinking too much.

To Sterilize large branches I spray them with a diluted solution of Chlorhexidine (Nolvasan) , scrub with a soft wire brush, rinse with water and let dry in the sun. I cut live branches because the chance of getting a fungus, insects etc are lower. I use a low texture branch like maple because there are less nooks and crannies for fecal matter to settle into. I also use cork bark tubes and flats, they use these all the time for security. If you come across a place to get large cork tubes please let me know.

Again, there are much more qualified and experienced keepers out there that have already had experience with these things. I suggest cross referencing any of my ideas with someone else. They may have more cost effective ways to do the same thing. They may also tell you not to bother with or do some of the things that I have presented differently. Whatever you do find out it would be great if you could please keep me informed. Hopefully someone will give us some feedback here, and thanks to those who already have.

I will keep monitoring this thread, or you can email me as well.

Steve - sdi

I also plan to use cork bark sheet to cover the back wall and sides. When I first got my monitors I had researched different cage ideas and I saw the steel trough kind. I had originally planned to convert a used shower stall for a cage. I thought it would be perfect for all the humidity plus it has a drain. I have changed my plans though because I was going to have help building a cage from someone but now I am not. I have never built one before so I wanted to just do the easiest cage type I can think of. I also could not find a used shower stall I liked as far as dimensions went. All the ones I found were too small IMO. I wanted a 38 or 36 inch corner stall at least. So now I have a friend that lives in another state that has built wood cages for his reptiles(including BRNmonitor)that is going to try and talk me through building one for myself. I know what you are saying about the bottom being wet and the wood. I was planning on putting 5 layers of polycrylic on the wood and in addition for the floor I wanted to line it with tile and line the bottom walls with it too. I also want to seal all the cracks with sealant. After that I am going to put the cork bark on the walls. I hope this will be ok for a few years or so. After building this first cage I hope I can be comfortable to build more by myself and get better at it. I'm so nervous about doing it by myself it's not even funny. Really I should have built a cage by now but I kept putting it off out of fear that I am going to forget something or mess something up.

I don't know where to buy large cork tubes. I wish I did because I'd like some too

Oh, BTW I know what it's like to live in high humidity and low humidity. I was born in Miami and currently live in Colorado. I have lived mostly up and down the east coast though. I've never been this far out west before till now. To be honest I don't like it. I miss trees and water, lol! It's also too freaking dry here!

I can believe it after witnessing some CB GTM adults a friend of mine had, thank God for video because their are so many misinformed experts out there that would tell you otherwise. So now I know your the owner of those nice legs in the other video:} Keep on posting, most experianced keepers will learn something new from your great GTM videos
Cheers,Bob
www.herphatch.com

Beautiful monitor and thanks for sharing your video of such an special interaction.

Yep. The female of the pair I worked with would regularly jump out onto my arm and feed from there. I was lucky to work with some sweet animals, they weren't shy at all. I miss them.

That is such a rare video of a calm monitor that has really only been available through importation and real estatic in personality [normally w/c imports]. I guess only until more breeders have sucess with the tree monitors and are willing to share video like this will we see such amazing footage. My guess would be the GTM is familiar with the keepers scent and follows it through the more unfamiliar scents on the steps. Keep up the good work and maybe someday their will be no need to import this species, their will be enough CB here in the USA to supply the hobby and people will have a 2nd look at what Captive breeding can do.
Cheers,Bob