Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was pulling my hair out during a conversation today hearing an environmental lawyer talk about what's going on in the Everglades. I listened about there being 130,000 Burmese Pythons in the glades and also about the good of the bill wanting the banning of 45 python and boa species...because "they are probably there too".

When I started debating the issues I brought up the number of pythons being 26 that 14 full time pros caught in a 1/4 of a year and I was quickly corrected that the number is actually 38. Great...I gave them the 38 and I pointed out that it was an extremely low number for there to be 130,000. It was then brought to my attention that the Burmese are very good at hiding and that's why so few are found. I did what I could to contain my frustration and asked how do they know how many there are if they can't even find them to count them? We then moved on to the 2 year old girl in Orlando.

I am quoting this person in them saying that the 'baby' was eaten by a 14 foot Burmese. Two of us jumped all over that and argued that it was an emaciated 8 foot Burmese that didn't eat the 2 year old...let alone kill her. The circumstances will always be questionable around the tragedy. This person insisted that it was a 14 foot animal that 'ate' the 'baby'.

Now being an environmental lawyer...people will think that this person actually knows what they are talking about. This is very bad. We are up against the same thing when Senators claim that boas and pythons will live on the shores of Maryland...some idiots will actually believe them. The ends justifies the means as they say.

The only correct thing this person said is that it doesn't matter who is wrong or right and it doesn't matter who is lying and who is telling the truth but the only thing that matters is what benefits the Congressman and Senators the most and who benefits the most by their actions. It's certainly not the reptile community...Senator Nelson and his peers will be destroying thousands if not tens of thousands of families and individuals who rely on this business to feed their families and put a roof over their heads. It's not the cage makers, rat breeders, hide and water bowl manufacturers, bedding manufacturers, tub makers, and so on. Who will benefit from it? The politicians and the animal rights groups that are pushing for it.

Just this past week...a young man was found dead in his home by me and he had pit bulls that were actually found to have been feeding on him. There is no cause of death so far. Maybe the dogs killed him...it's happened many times before. The outcome? Nothing at all because it won't benefit any Senators or Congressman if they ban dogs...HSUS and PETA wouldn't stand for that. A 2 year old girl dies in questionable circumstances involving a burmese python and all out war is waged against the herp community and politicians come flying out of the woodwork wanting to jump on the ban the pythons and boas bandwagon.

I would like to know exactly how much each one of the opposing politicians has received from HSUS since they have been in office. I would also like to know how much 'friends' of the same politicians have received from HSUS. Something stinks here...and it's not snake feces.
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

I would like to know exactly how much each one of the opposing politicians has received from HSUS since they have been in office. I would also like to know how much 'friends' of the same politicians have received from HSUS

that is all public record, just file a freedom of information act request

I wonder if anyone has checked this out? If so...please post the findings.
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

This is one of the many reasons other interest groups are trying to get HSUS and PETA'S non-profit revoked. They are only allowed to donate a percent of the bank-roll to political purposes. I'm sure many more questionable ones are made that are never really brought up.

???????????

Don't really know how. Explain it to me...what, how, who, and so on.

Thanks
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

You may want to start here: www.fec.gov or here:www.opensecrets.org/index.php

It should be available through their state website but if it's not you contact their office they should be able to get you the information.
-----
Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

Thanks very much Tosha!
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

This one was interesting, seems to only be up to date to June tho:
maplight.org/map/us/bill/80271/default/committees/411 be sure to click on details link for each member.
-----
Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

That's a lot of money...on paper anyway. I would bet there's even more that's never shown and loads more donated to 'friends' of the Senators.

Thanks for the info Tosha.
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

one of the biggest entities that are under attack from HSUS, but is able to defend itself do to money and members is the NRA. They have many "clips" on HSUS and questionable practices. Look at "watchdog.com" as well.

People must understand that HSUS wants it all. Think of the industry as a hand. Instead of trying to chop off the whole hand at once they focus on single fingers. They get people within the groups to "throw each other under the bus" to save what they love. This is how they operate. With the hunting crowd, they went after trappers, which was the smallest of the sportman community. Then bow hunters because the bow doesn't drop the animal in its tracks. With exotic animals. First was big cats because they could eat you. Then big primates, then all primates etc etc.

So as animal and pet owners we need to reach out to the other "type" of pet owner as well. More voices the better. Dog and cat people are always in the eye of HSUS and have come under attack many times as well with the same OP. Pitbulls, Rotts, Cane Corso. The very big POTENTIALLY dangerous animal, when all record show many more bites come from the smaller breeds, they just do NOT do enough damage to be the poster child for these group like HSUS.

Does USARK focus on others listed by Matt. Why not try and get rubbermaid, Iris,sterilite,the makers of the concrete mixing tubs the makers of cat litter pans involved since they will all be affected if the reptile ban is passed.These are big money comapnies and maybe if they get on board this will help.

Even talk with distribution companies that deliver the reptile products. Such as Central pets who own Zilla and For paws, both the comapnies sell reptile products and will be affected.

Summit Pet also ship out reptiles products.
Maybe Rolf C.Hagen would come on board. THey are a german based company I believe. But have manufacutors or designers in Canada.

Just an idea I had. Tell me what you think.
-----
Thanks and Take Care
Thomas Jones
sweetpetsshop2@yahoo.com

That is a good idea. I will talk to my mfg rep's when they come in as well as my disttributor rep's.
Bruce Delles c/o Twin Cities Reptiles

I think it will be a good idea to talk with fish distributors as well as other non reptile related distributors.
If you are a full line store with fish,small animals and dry goods and they pass the reptile ban. It could possibly run full line stores out as well. All the feeders,heat bulbs,tanks,lids,locks and bedding sells would almost cease to exsist.
This could run some stores out and in the long run hurt fish and aquarium companies as well as dog and cat supply places. Small animals as well.
If the ban passes and ran out say 3000 stores nation wide. That is millions in annual sells that the other companies would lose as well.
-----
Thanks and Take Care
Thomas Jones
sweetpetsshop2@yahoo.com

If anybody thinks this will stop with the big 9 or the 45 pythons and boas...they are nuts. Bills will keep being introduced whenever possible. First it was just the Burmese, then them and the African Rocks, then the big 9, and then the 45. God forbid that happens and HSUS and Nelson drive thousands and maybe tens of thousands into bankruptcy...will it end...nope. It will go to rat snakes, hognose, and the rest of the snakes we keep. Then it will go to the rest of the reptiles.

If someday they get that all cleared up HSUS will turn their sights on the fish, birds, and small mammal people. What you have to understand is that for people like this...it's never enough. Eco-terrorists can never spike enough trees, blow up enough clinics, spray paint enough fur coats, or board enough Japanese fishing vessels.

It's insane to think that in this wonderful country that we live that we may not be able to have a pet snake but we sure can get high on prescription meds without having anything wrong with us, get drunk enough to kill people when we drive, buy semi automatic weapons and kill innocent people with them, smoke enough cigarettes to kill ourselves and our children who breath in the second hand smoke, and we can do a hundred thousand other things that kill loads of people every year...but oh yeah...we can't breed and sell a chondro python?

Maybe HSUS and PETA should focus their attention on the real problems in the country. How about they take that hundred plus million they donate every year to lobbyists and help feed and clothe the starving children we have here in the US. What a concept...actually doing something good with the money they get from people.
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Wow this stuff really gets me mad, I wish they would prove there are thousands in the Everglades instead of just saying there are. How could there be thousands if they only found 38??? We have a long fight up against us. Gotta keep fighting!!

The trouble with living in a fear based society where sensationalized crap rules!

Bag all your animals up, drive to Washington, D.C. and turn them in. Everyone do it on the same day. It will be like "The Million Snake March" so to speak. Might as well turn in your guns too. This isn't going to end any time soon.
-----
www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

I think florida will have many more invasive animals if this passes. At least they will have a fighting chance there versus turning them in.
Jeff

>>I think florida will have many more invasive animals if this passes. At least they will have a fighting chance there versus turning them in.
>>Jeff

You're right Jeff. I would just love to see all the "snakes" proposing these bills panic.
-----
www.brandonosbornereptiles.com