Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a hatchling knob I treated for mites yesterday with Provent A Mite. I treated it along with another hatchling pyro and two yearling honurans. Today the one knob was twitchy and definitely not acting normal. I used the PAM according to directions and allowed the box to dry out for at least an hour. I even wiped off the residual to ensure the box was dry before putting the snake back in. The other three snakes were fine. Any advice would be welcomed!!

You are the second person in like four weeks to have that happen. If you search the forum you can find the other guy. I cannot remember the result of the "poisoning". Maybe someone else can remember and jump in.

Proventamite is not as safe as many people would like to believe. Very small reptiles can be extremely sensitive to the vapors. If you sprayed the box in the same room as the snakes they could have inhaled too much of it.

Your snake sounds like it is suffering from permethrin toxicity. Some people have found that an injection of atropine will reverse the neurologic symptoms. Others argue that it does not work. It may be species dependant but it is your only chance. Otherwise supportive care is all you can provide. In my experience snakes that have already begun showing nervous signs and don't get atropine don't survive.

It is terribly frustrating when a "reptile product" does this to people pets. Good luck and let us know what happens.

First of all place your snakes in untreated tubs or cages with new bedding immediately! Time is off the essence, as you need to place them in a nontoxic environment. I had the same thing happen to six snakes that I recently treated. I followed the directions and the results were disastrous! The snakes were around two years of age, two mex-mex and four pyros. All snakes began to twitch the next morning. I felt that if I didn’t act fast I would loose these snakes, and I promptly placed the snakes in untreated tubs with new bedding. The mex-mex quickly responded to the tub change, and seemed better the next day, and they are doing just fine a year later.

The pyros are different story, they got worse each day, and by the third day the pyros couldn’t keep upright and were just writhing on their backs. It was really horrible to watch! All the pyros were dead by day five. I have used PAM with larger snakes (boas) without a problem, but after this last experience I’ll probably never the stuff again. It’s just too risky!

Sorry to hear about your experience, and good luck. Hopefully others will learn from this post!

Montane kings are sensitive to No Pest Strip (same chemical as PAM I think) too. PAM (pest strip, etc) should not be used with montane kings inside their cages.

I've done it, but used so little that the pyro did not have a noticeable reaction. Still, avoid it if possible.
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Mark

When using PAM, you need to consider the mass of the snake. Plus, when you stated that you wiped off the excess, that sounds like alot of PAM. For a young ball python, fine. For a tiny knoblochi, possibly too much.

Remove the snake immediately. Wash it too to remove any possible residue from its body.

Using any kind of poison with hatchlings should be done only if the mites are severe. Otherwise, with small kingsnake hatchlings (especially montane kingsnakes), keeping in a deli cup and using PAM on the shelf OUTSIDE the deli cup is sometimes enough, coupled with removing mites in the cup as you find them.
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Mark

The twitching has definitely subsided and the little pyro is hiding in its usual spot and appears to be doing much better. Very strange and I am luck it was what appears to be a short term situation. I will be keeping and eye on it for sure. I have used PAM and Black Knight in the past without any issues when following directions. I have even used No Pest Strips without issue. Very strange. Thanks for all the responses!!