Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Pardon my ignorance, as im a little late on the Ball Train. But I just figured a pied gene mixed with any other morph would make that morph but with pied markings. Watching RDR's youtube channel he crossed a Pied with a Lesser hoping to make "The Cookies And Cream" Ball but instead made a pure white snake.

Now what got me is he said that "i figured this would happen". Now im wondering what does the pied do to other morphs. More specificly i was intrested in a Butter Pied, Ivory Pied or a Snow Pied. Obviously I'm attracted to the lighter more pale colors of this species and wondering 'am i just going to do all this work to make white snakes?'.

I tried doing my own research as to what has been crossed with a pied and just dont seem to get any solid answers (or pictures).

Any thoughts, theories or hard evidence would be welcome and thank you for your time.

-Julian
-----
Julian Garcia
Chondros Exquisite
Seattle,WA

What exactly are you trying to find on them ?

The Pied is a recessive mutation

When you combine it to some other morph, they come all white or nearly all white.

The Spider Pied, is all white except the head
The Panda (super black pastel pied) is all white exept a small dark patch

But the Pastel Pied have color just like the Lightning (Axanthic Pied), and like the Albino Pied or Dreamsicle (lavender albino pied).

There is also the Pinstripe Pied, who is not all white, and the pinstripe is a pattern mutation so.
-----
love this world, don't hate it.

pied crosses can be confusing. only one panda pied has been produced (that i know of) and yes, it was very high white. the spider gene seems to create all white, save for head. a butter will produce the same as a lesser, all white. other crosses are more variable, producing what would be "expected". we will see in years to come how the gene affects other morphs.

Ok, so pretty much, no one has much of a clue at this point. I just figured that the mutation has been around for so long that most combos have already been attempted.

Thanks for the update!

-JG
-----
Julian Garcia
Chondros Exquisite
Seattle,WA

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to get something more well thought out than just "when combined with some other morph".

I'm aware of a Spider pied, Panda, Albino, Etc...

Why exactly when combined a Mojave does the double gene take on an all white apperance. How come RD had an idea that this was going to happen...

Again, i'm hoping for something more substantial than just examples.

Thanks for your time,
JG
-----
Julian Garcia
Chondros Exquisite
Seattle,WA

This has also happened to Peter Kahl when he produced a lesser pied. If you look at the rdr video closely you can see that the lesser pied has a pink head which indicates that is the lesser portion of the morph. I am assuming rd had a feeling it was gonna turn white because of the variability in the pied and lesser morphs especially his lessers (platty daddy). The spider pied has also produced all white snakes as well but usually spider pieds only have spider color heads with all white bodies. So I dont think even Kahl has any concrete answers as far as explaining the all white phenomenon. There is a mojave pied that is not all white but it is part of the BEL gene. The only thing that I have heard or read about pieds is that they are extremely variable and are recessive of course.

"...recessive of course"

I'm not so sure about that. I think pied might be somewhere in-between recessive and co-dominant. Maybe "recessive with co-dominant tendencies"?

And now there is Graziani's Leopard piebald line that might be fully co-dominant.

I had heard comments that there might be some not fully white lesser pieds. Even if that does turn out to be true there is probably some interaction between the two mutations for the first all white pied to have been lesser.

Thank's fellas'! This is the sort of thread i wanted to see! Great info!
-----
Julian Garcia
Chondros Exquisite
Seattle,WA

>>Thank's fellas'! This is the sort of thread i wanted to see! Great info!
>>-----
>>Julian Garcia
>> Chondros Exquisite
>>Seattle,WA

So far it seems like if you breed the Pied to recessive morphs you will get a predictable result. It is just a few of the codoms that have caused a lot of confusion. I think aside from Lessers/butters, Mojaves, Spiders, and maybe Russo's the rest of the codoms should come out as expected. Not sure on calico's? Could end up like spiders maybe?

I do think (hope) that as more panda pieds are produced we will probably see ones with more black pattern. Right now everyone is basing their opinion on one snake so it is possible that others will have more black.

I am actually hoping most of the lesser pieds are pure white like Ralphs. I want a white snake that is totally 100% pure bright pied white and none of the other ways to make a "white" snake can do that.
-----
John Vandegrift

Randy,
I did not get a picture of it, but I have seen one on the internet somewhere. Pete had a Lesser Pied in Chicago that was not all white. It was very similar to the Mojave Pieds that have been shown as of late. It was small portions of colored areas, and they had the same gold/tan color to them. I just thought I would let you know that it wasn't just hearsay.
-----
Tim and Monica Bailey
Bailey & Bailey Reptiles

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how often the lesser pieds are all white vs. how often they aren't and if any of the other mutant alleles in the lesser complex will combine to make all white pieds some of the time.