Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Time to bring up the usual winter posts. This questions is to all of those folks who keep alterna or snakes outside of your actual home or apartment. How cold is too cold? Has anyone ever lost an alterna to low temperatures? Meaning have you ever seen an alterna freeze to death? Not "it got cold and then got a respiratory infection"...

Hope everyone is doing well.

Best Wishes,

StevenX

how can this be a hot topic????.....its about the loss of heat!!!!!........at what temperature does a grayband's metabolic activities cease????......do they produce that antifreeze type chemical like some other species????

That better Bob ? LOL

If you see coach and Moe again please pass on my well wishes. I love hangin with those guys. Granted, I get on their nerves really bad but hey... I am what I am.

Happy Holidays,

Stevenx

Hey Steve,

I am not sure why it would matter exactly where your snakes are being hibernated.. Temp is temp.. right?

I winter my alterna between 48 and 50 degrees, i am sure they could go a bit lower with no issues, but personally i do not have any experience doing so..

I would also have to agree with Bob in that if they get to cold they would freeze and die just like any other snake..

Hope all is well,

~ Mike Russo

I do not know the absolute answer to this question, but I can tell you about an experience I had.

I use to cycle my animals in my attached, rear garage - no insulation and not even close to an air tight door. I would only cover the shelves they were on with a blanket. One year it got cold, real cold, similar to this year in fact. We were out for 2 days and the second night gone it dipped to the low 20's or upper teens outside. I was very concerned and anxious to get home. Upon my arrival I found ice in the garage and not a single animal was lost to the cold. I had everything from Crotalus to different forms of Lampros and many different age groups, but no new babies from that year. I have no doubt that those snakes experienced 32 degrees or maybe even lower. I'm talking bare, thin walls, not even drywall and lots of air flow from the outside. I've not cycled them there ever since.

FYI - it dropped to 22 degrees the last 2 nights here and it froze in my garage yet again. The night those snakes spent in extreme cold temps it was every bit of 22 outside, or like I said, maybe even lower.

Due to this incident, I have to assume that North American Crotalus and Lampros do not freeze easily.

Several of those snakes are still alive and well today, as well as reproducing. Among them are alterna and my albino C.scutulatus.
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Brad Alexander

FullSpectrumHerps.com

That's very interesting Brad (and Tom).. Like I said I have not wintered at very low temps, but I would have never guessed they could survive down in the teens much less the single digits..

I weed through all the fighting and disagreements (not only on this forum of course) to learn stuff like this..

Great topic Steve, thanks for posting!

Hope all is well,

~ Mike russo

Just so that I am clear, I do not think my snakes experienced temps much below freezing. And in all actuality, they may have barely reached 32 degrees themselves. They were in the garage, covered with a blanket and had aspen bedding. So I really do not know the exact temp each animal was subjected to. I only know it froze within the garage itself so I suspect they experienced temps of at least 32. Given the cover, they may have managed to stay slightly warmer, but not much.

Coach said he kept a heater in the garage for the cold nights. I would seriously doubt that his animals came anywhere near close to freezing temps. He only said it got into the teens outside.

Nevertheless, they can handle some serious cold temps.
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Brad Alexander

FullSpectrumHerps.com

Don't worry Brad, I was not moving my stuff to the shed just yet.. But, it is very interesting for me to learn that they can go lower than mid 40's without issue.. Which has always been a concern of mine..

And, of course anyone that has had to euthanize a snake knows that there certainly is a point that they will freeze.. ~

~ Mike Russo

Thanks everyone for your responses. Brad, you answer was what I was looking for and a lead into my next question. What type of reproduction did you have the following spring/summer? Was it a good one? Was it bad? Were females infertile?

I really appreciate your thoughts and opinions.

Mike Russo - Yes Sir! Everyone here has some good feedback and information to offer.

Best Wishes,

StevenX

I keep mine in the garage over the winter where it sometimes gets into single digit temps outside. I use a space heater to keep the garage at 50 - 55. I only have to use the heater a couple times during the winter. I give them plenty of aspin to burrow into and a water bowl. I have not lost any alterna although I usually lose at least 1 snake in brumation each year. I commonly find the dead animal in the water bowl. I'm sure many animals die during brumation in the wild as well.

had it to 43 more or less for albut a week one year ...
lost 3 snakes
male 6 1/2 foot yellow rat like 6 yr old
a corn I think and I forget maybe a thayeri or sumpin???...

...anyways.........today I actually took temps around the snakes , right under an open window, cellar, with rodent room connected...so there is heat ,and furnace...air coming in was around 47???....temps ran around 53 to 60 ......outside 20 mph winds and tamps into teens....closed window a little bit...LOL

.....think this way....caves....averages....53 to 55 degrees...

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...(______________________)

the length of exposure is a variable to be considered also.....like a dip to 30 degrees as compared to a week or more....but this dude creates his own heat...

I can only add that I placed several snakes into my well room in my basement last year.(stupid design in the 1950's by the builder by placing the water well in the basement, recessed into the cinderblock wall). The well room evidently gets colder then I thought and the snakes were subjected to 43 degree temps for several weeks. I did not lose any snakes but both of the adult knoblochi I had in there had pretty bad URI's and required batryl. They did breed and the female laid seven eggs. Only two eggs hatched. The other snakes that were in the room were eastern milk snakes from my area (Maryland) and all were completely fine. I obviously do not place snakes into that room any more for brumation and just put them into the storage room at 50-55 degrees.