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Water python with wrinkly stomach?

HogBilly Dec 11, 2009 08:57 AM

This is probably going to sound like a noob question as if I haven't owned snakes for 7yrs, but I'm gonna shoot it anyway just to get some feedback because I've never seen this before. Quick history and then we'll get on to the problem:

My water python has had it a bit rough. I bought her as an adult in early '08 and she was covered in mites which led to a minor RI. Then she had a tricamonad problem that had to be taken care of (which I gotta say thanks guys, because you helped me through that). Finally she's been back on track, had one odd shed before that cleared up by next shed, otherwise doing great and eating great.

Last week she went blue, and I fed her tues but otherwise left her pretty alone. Today I noticed this shedding thing is taking a bit longer than usual so I went in to check things out. She looks normal but feels extremely dry, and her stomach looks like it's been tightly wrapped in wrinkly cellophane.

Now, I'd say dehydrated shed gone wrong, but I watch her drink water often enough, I upped the humidity a little as usual, and her nose shows no sign of even attempting to shed. It's like she jumped from blue into stuck.

Going to give her a soak right after work, possibly leave her in a bin with a warm wet towel overnight. Shedding problems aren't new to me, but specifically 'crinkle belly' is. Any ideas of what could have caused it?
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1.0 speckled kingsnake
1.0 leucistic texas ratsnake
0.1 tricolor hognose
0.1 water python
0.1 spider ball python
1.0 green tree python

Replies (8)

captnemo Dec 11, 2009 06:57 PM

I wouldn't worry....a damp towel in a warm bin will probably do the trick. She sounds like she's about ready. I've seen some bellies get wrinkled right before a shed.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

zach_whitman Dec 15, 2009 12:40 AM

First of all it has not been long enough to be concerned about a fully retained shed. Sometimes they go opaque and then go clear for several days before shedding.

Retained sheds are most commonly caused by one of two things. Dehydration/lack of humidity and stress. Since your snake is drinking I would doubt that it is dehydration. You could up the humidity but from the other problems you have had with this snake I would say that it is more likely a stress issue.

I get concerned when I hear about snakes with mites, URI, parasites, and shedding problems all one right after the next. These are not things that just happen to healthy snakes because of bad luck. These are opportunistic infections (except the mites) that take advantage of a snake that is already compromised by another issue (usually husbandry related). If you provide some detail about your husbandry we can help find the problem.

If she does not shed soon I would soak her and then manually remove the shed yourself.

HogBilly Dec 15, 2009 06:58 AM

Update while I'm here: still hasn't shed yet. Added a wetbox so she can use that if she wants, along with my soakings. I'm willing to manually shed her, but on her topside it's like there's simply nothing to shed off unless I was into skinning.

Full history because I don't think all her problems are really related to bad husbandry, not from me anyhow: she came to me loaded with mites in early '08 (during this time none of my other snakes got them since I quarantine). The mites caused the RI on their way out which I caught really early and immediately treated/fixed. That all happened early-mid 2008. The tricamonads also went out of whack as a domino effect at that point, but since their only symptom was being irregular with food and the vet wasn't checking for them I fully admit I didn't notice what I didn't know existed and chalked it up to stress from the mites.
In early 2009 she began farting and got extremely aggressive, I identified the tricamonads via kingsnake, met with my vet and cleared them. Her previous weird shed I mentioned was during the end of the four-five weeks of treatment, which took a bit longer than it should because the vet wanted to try a lighter dosage than what was recommended here first. Lighter dosage didn't work that well, he upped it to what I mentioned and they cleared up immediately. After the weird shed she gave me a perfect one. She's been eating, pooping and shedding fine ever since. Oh, and she's been acting like a shy kitten again, instead of a hungry monster.

I fully agree they're opportunistic, but I'm inclined to believe they happened because of the mites. All my other snakes have never ever had an issue. Sorry I glazed over all that in my first post! For quick husbandy notes she's on paper towels, has a nice big water tub along with her shedding log and proper hiding, and her gradient spans 75 to 85-90. A tiny bit on the cooler end of the spectrum but I've heard from here that they like it best that way, and she seems to have no issues with it.
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1.0 speckled kingsnake
1.0 leucistic texas ratsnake
0.1 tricolor hognose
0.1 water python
0.1 spider ball python
1.0 green tree python

zach_whitman Dec 15, 2009 01:54 PM

Several things...

First of all mites did not cause a URI. They are completely separate disorders.

The paper towels are not really a good substrate for a humidity loving species of python. If you wet them they will get filthy fast and if you don't they will be dry and desiccating. Additionally many paper towels have wetting agents in them to make them suck up water faster. Is her bowl big enough to soak in? When you say a "wetbox", what exactly does that mean? What is the substrate? Is it solid colored or clear? Is she using it? Never comes out of it? I think that one of your underlying problems is her hydration status. I would urge you to switch to a more humidity friendly bedding like cypress mulch and/or provide a bowl big enough to soak. A properly designed humidity chamber could work too but many people screw these up.

You say that her appetite isn't great and I have to imagine that it has to do with your temps. Yes water pythons will use cooler temps but they still need a nice hot spot to eat/digest. Higher temps will also boost her immune system.

How old/large is she? What exactly are "proper hides"? How big is her cage?

If you are SURE that you saw her go blue like she was going to shed, I would recommend helping her out. It might not look like much on top but once you start peeling it will all come off no problem. If you are not sure if she has a retained shed than I would ask a vet or a more experienced herper to take a look. You don't want to start pulling off good skin.

HogBilly Dec 15, 2009 02:45 PM

Alright, I'm at work but I'll give a few pin notes:

-I was told the RI was caused by the mite stress by my vet. Either way it only happened once right after I got her, and has not since. It is not a recurring problem.
-her bowl is large enough for her to completely submerge. She's not always in it, and isn't even in it often.
-She hasn't really made use of the wetbox this time and prefers her two dry hides, it is a plastic box with one hole large enough for her, with wet towels that I've been changing daily. Could switch to moss, but I'd have to get a ton more for her. 9ft girl's kinda big, though I can do it if I need to no problem.
-I was told by Bob Clark that she's been on dry aspen her whole life before she came to me and water pythons are fine with it. Are paper towels I keep clean that different from dry wood chips?

-her appetite IS great currently. She hammers food on a regular basis.

-her skin 'springs back into place' as if she's hydrated.

I think I'm trying to bullet point out that I'm not sure why you're jumping to a hydration problem. Once the tricamonads cleared she's been eating and digesting perfectly, with no symptoms of anything for most of the year, and now one bad shed means I'm doing everything wrong?

Don't take this the wrong way! I'll be glad to look into more hydration options if that's an issue. Just confused.
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1.0 speckled kingsnake
1.0 leucistic texas ratsnake
0.1 tricolor hognose
0.1 water python
0.1 spider ball python
1.0 green tree python

zach_whitman Dec 15, 2009 11:27 PM

I didn't say you were doing everything wrong. But shedding problems are husbandry related pure and simple.

Just because she is hydrated doesn't mean that humidity isn't the problem. Have you ever had dry skin when the heat turns on the winter? You are not systemically dehydrated but your outer layers of skin definitely are. Come to think about it that could be your problem. Did this shedding issue start when your heat turned on?

Humidity has more to do with what is going on in the cage. It has to do with where you live and what else is in the room. When I lived back east the humidity was higher and I had a fishtank in the snake room. All of my snakes did awesome on aspen. When I moved to Colorado (high and dry, no fish tank) all of my kings started having shedding problems. Just because Bob Clark kept her dry doesn't mean you can too. If you don't want to change the in cage situation an easy solution is to go buy a $15 humidifier from the pharmacy.

Just curious... you got a snake from bob clark that was covered in mites??

-I was told the RI was caused by the mite stress by my vet. Either way it only happened once right after I got her, and has not since. It is not a recurring problem.
-her bowl is large enough for her to completely submerge. She's not always in it, and isn't even in it often.
-She hasn't really made use of the wetbox this time and prefers her two dry hides, it is a plastic box with one hole large enough for her, with wet towels that I've been changing daily. Could switch to moss, but I'd have to get a ton more for her. 9ft girl's kinda big, though I can do it if I need to no problem.
-I was told by Bob Clark that she's been on dry aspen her whole life before she came to me and water pythons are fine with it. Are paper towels I keep clean that different from dry wood chips?

-her appetite IS great currently. She hammers food on a regular basis.

-her skin 'springs back into place' as if she's hydrated.

I think I'm trying to bullet point out that I'm not sure why you're jumping to a hydration problem. Once the tricamonads cleared she's been eating and digesting perfectly, with no symptoms of anything for most of the year, and now one bad shed means I'm doing everything wrong?

Don't take this the wrong way! I'll be glad to look into more hydration options if that's an issue. Just confused.
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HogBilly Dec 16, 2009 01:24 PM

I'm not going to place the blame on anyone. Bob Clark's snakes always look great and it's a pleasure to see him, and we all know how fast mites can go around at a show. But I bought her from him, didn't touch any other snake during the show, and she had mites in a brand new cage in a part of the house that's never seen snakes.
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1.0 speckled kingsnake
1.0 leucistic texas ratsnake
0.1 tricolor hognose
0.1 water python
0.1 spider ball python
1.0 green tree python

zach_whitman Dec 16, 2009 05:33 PM

Yeah shows are tough. Most people don't realize that mites run around quite far from the snakes. I have had mites in my collection twice. Both times it was just from me going to a show and coming back to my snake room. I didn't even buy anything or handle any snakes. Now I go straight for the shower and the laundry with all expo cloths.

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