Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just spoke with Will Stein @ Senator Nelsons office and our conversation lasted a good 35 minutes or so. The highlights of the conversation are this:

They FULLY believe that the majority of the pythons in the Everglades are released pets, or their descendants. Will said that they have the rangers backing this up, as well as admission by people. They do NOT believe what has been written on the internet about Hurricane Andrew being the cause of most of the pythons.

Will stated that their two main concerns are additional imported animals into the US, and released pets.

I reminded Will that there are already laws against releasing non-native wildlife into the Everglades. He acknowledged that, but said that people just ignore the law and went on to say that S373 essentially will add another layer to the existing law.

I then asked him about the possibility of only banning the import of these animals into the US as it addresses the concerns about wild animals coming into the country, but does not restrict trade between the states, thereby keeping people who are dependend upon their snake related income, in business. He said he liked the idea and would pass it along to Senator Nelson.

I gave Will some examples of how this bill will hurt me financially through the elimination of interstate commerce. I explained that in this market, a snakes future production capabilities are what gives many animals their value and if demand is reduced by 98% (from all 50 states down to 1 state - or 2% of the number of states), then the value drops as well. As a result, the investment value of these animals is nullified. He admitted he had never thought about it from that perspective and would make sure to pass that along to Senator Nelson as well.

I also touched on Rodda's initial report regarding the expansion of the Burmese python and quoted Pyron's rebuttal. I explained that average daily temperature is a fatally flawed method of determining the suitability of habitat and that temperature extremes are much more important. Will actually admitted that he knew the Burmese python would NEVER leave the Everglades.

Will continued to reiterate how easy it is for people to buy Burmese pythons and I said that as a responsible snake keeper, I am FULLY behind reasonable efforts to require a permit for large constricting snakes. I explained that a permit would help to reduce impulse purchases (which would curb the release of unwanted animals) and provide income for the state.

I also mentioned to Will that Senator Nelson estimated that there are 100,000 Burmese pythons in the Everglades, and year long efforts have only resulted in the removal of approximately 350 of these snakes. I then told him that if the snakes stopped growing in numbers and removal techniques did not improve, it would take 250-300 years to remove all of the pythons. He started laughing because he had never done the math and was blown away by the futility of the activity.

All in all, Will was EXTREMELY courteous, forthcoming, and open to the idea of better solutions.

I closed by saying that I FULLY support efforts to remove Burmese pythons from the wild, but that I would like to see legislation with that as the focus, rather than just making it difficult to do business.

We thanked each other for the others time and courtesy, he took down my full name and email address and said that if Senator Nelson has any comments or questions, he'll be sure to get back to me.

Now, I don't expect anything to come of this conversation and I'm sure if Will makes any recommendations to Senator Nelson, they'll be ignored. But I did it to prove to myself that it's not impossible to influence those surrounding Senator Nelson. And if we all work together, we can create a snowball effect.

Thanks!
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Nice job! Calling to speak to the bill's sponsor is something that I would have felt extremely futile about, but I'm glad you did it! Just out of curiosity, are you one of Senator Nelson's constituents? I know when I called during one of the "campaigns", they made it clear that if I didn't live in Florida, they didn't really care what I wanted or thought.

I also had some success today. I spoke with the responsible staff member in Senator Voinovich's (Ohio) office. He was VERY interested and had lots of questions. We spoke for 30-45 mins. One thing that kinda grabbed me at the end, was that he said if HSUS had anything to do with it, well...let's just say that opposing HSUS is not something they'd find competely distasteful...

I promised him a lot of information and a cheat sheet to help the senator locate and reference the "good stuff". He said he'd make sure the sentor and the other staff that should be involved were informed. He said he didn't expect any activity on the bill anytime soon, (with all the other issues like health care being a primary focus), but he'd like to be prepared just in case and was eager to get the information.

I hope other people are also making an effort to contact their senators (staffs) directly. The reception you get seems very different (better) if you are a constituent. And, once you get a direct phone number and email to the person who has the senator's ear on this topic, making contact is much more rewarding/hopeful!

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

Jonathon, that's excellent BUT we need to talk to the REPUBLICAN SENATOR and ask his help in fighting this ill advised bill on the floor of the Senate. We already know that Nelson will be unmoved and will lie as needed...Our Republican Senator is George Lemieux...I will be in touch with him ASAP
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Thanks Jonathan for the great job and for sharing. Your post is like a Christmas Present bringing a little good cheer. I know I needed to hear it. At least you got through. I had emailed Barbara Boxer, hoping she would go to my site and see what a boa store is like. I asked her to look at customer photos, and visit Happy Herpers. I wanted her to realize that this is a wonderful pet industry, and that they really do not have a chance of establishing in the US as a invasive species. Apparently it did not change her mind, if she even looked. Again, keep up the good fight. Sharon

Do we have the data indicating the economic impact in terms if devaluated assets? Lost jobs? Destroyed business?

Do we have talking points to explain all the secondary economic damage that will occur to other business like pets stores, pet supplies, manufactures of enclosures etc.

Do we know how many snake owners we have nationally, herpetological societies, private exhibit and educational programs that will be affected?

Do we have talking points on some of the major achievements that private breeding projects have accomplished??

Just some thoughts as we take it to the next level, perhaps some one can do some research and help develop these talking points, might be a good thesis in there somewhere.

Thats good to hear. I'm in Florida and I thought we already had legislation in place that required a permit for giants (burms,retics, rocks, anacondas). I'm pretty sure that was the case at the Daytona show this year. Wouldn't that be sufficient enough to curb impulse/uninformed/unprepared purchases?

This is great what everyone has accomplished so far. but we are not thru yet. I see a "HUGE" mistake in allowing the bill to call out the Number 5 spiecs as just "Boa Constrictor" since there are many sub-spies of boa constrictor that may not actually be intended as the target of the bill.

This is direct from the WIKIPEDIA website:
All subspecies are referred to as "Boa constrictors," while the nominate subspecies, B. c. constrictor, is often referred to specifically as the "red-tailed boa." Within the exotic pet trade it is also known as a "BCC", an abbreviation of its scientific name, to distinguish it from other Boa constrictor subspecies such as the Boa constrictor imperator which is also regularly, and erroneously, referred to as a "red-tailed boa."

If this bill is passes as it is currently identified, and if any of the defining articles can not distinguish between species and sub-species of Boa Constrictor, then how will we expect anyone that enforces the bill to be able to distinguish between animals as well. They won't if they are not required to and they could be allowed to confiscate animals first and then require you to somehow make proper species identification later.

My gut feel on this is that the term “Boa Constrictor” needs to be explicitly identified at the sub species level. If the bill passes as it is currently being proposed to include "Boa Constrictor" in it's entirety, the enforcing authorities would not know the difference from one sub-species of Boa Constrictor to the next. With that in mind, how will we be able to defend that any sub-species such as an Island form Boa, say Hogg's Island Boa, was not actually intended to be targeted by this broad generalization of just saying Boa Constrictor? Do they actually mean just B.C.C.? Or are all of the B.C.I. and B.C.O.’s and any other Boa sub-species on the hit list as well? Are they going to leave it to the opinion of the enforcing agencies to just say that it was intended to include all sub-species of Boa Constrictor? You know what that would mean. All mainland species from South and Central America as well as any Island forms would now be targeted by this bill.

I hate to discriminate from a state to state basis, but I live almost as far North in Indiana as you can get. There are only about 4 months a year that a loose Python or Boa would really thrive in the unprotected environment around here at the current time and climatic conditions. Anything beyond that and they really stand about as much a chance of surviving as a snowball does in you know where! Don’t even get me started on what the USGS thinks the climate will be in 100 years here. If we lived in a vacuum then they would be right. But there are too many climatic events that have to hit just right for it all to play out like they are suggesting.

Why did I get into this hobby again? Oh yeah, it’s because I have been fascinated with reptiles for over 35 years . I have loved keeping my snakes that I have had over the past 20 years. And now that I am breeding many of the animals that I currently have, I can’t stomach the thought that I may have to get rid of any of them. They might as well tell me that I have to give up my son while they are at it and kill his love for these animals. I know that even at 4 years old he can sense the frustration that I am having from this whole issue. Rant. Rave. Rant. Rave. Rant. Rave……

Chris

Engineer by Degree, Herp’er for Life.

That's why it says Boa constrictor because it means ALL SUBSPECIES. Anytime a generic and specific name is used taxanomically it means ALL SUBSPECIES....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Most of the Boas don't even get to 6 feet. I have a Tarahumara that's pushing 3 feet.
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Greg Bennett

They're quite "specific" on the python/anaconda species that they wish to ban, yet.... It's very "broad range" on the Boa Constrictor. They want to ban "every Specie and Sub-Species" of Boa Constrictors.

This "Python Ban" had suddenly turned into a "Boa Constrictor Ban".

There are "so many" species of Boa Constrictor that don't even reach 6 foot, yet they would be banned if this goes through.

We all need to work as hard as possible to stop this!!

i like everything you wrote, but you were speaking to a politician (or worse the rep for one) and theres no lower person in terms of honesty and double talk. if you really want to get senator nelson's attention what we ought to be saying is if this bill goes into law that there will be however many breeders and herpers accross the country making certain and investing every penny to make sure senator nelson never holds elective office again. if he has skeletons in the closet there will be investigators and private eyes and attorneys working around the clock and well funded by a group of people that will seek to destroy him the way he's attempting to destroy. and that he better hope he never had an affair or a fetish because it will come to light furthermore that any person that ever runs as his adversary will automatically have a huge capital funding his campaign from day 1. unfortunately its a dog eat dog world and this in the end is business and thats how this is handled. this is the only note that senator nelson will take seriously.

I agree with Perfect Predators on this one. They obviously don't understand science, procedure, logic or common sense. Using one "theory" (global warming) to push another "theory" (the spread of pythons) into law. Theories aren't set in stone. But laws damn near are.