Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering if anyone could tell me a good source for husbandry details on blue or green tree monitors. Also can anyone with experience with these animals tell me if it you have had any trouble keeping them. Cageing isn't a problem, I can build them a large enclosure. I've never kept lizards before, but i have a fairly large snake collection (corns to cobras), and spend most my free time in my herp building. Unless they have some fairly outragious needs i should be able to handle this, but would like to get the research done plenty in advance. Thanks
Steven

I have never kept either species but honestly (and im sure everyone else here will agree), since you have never kept a lizard before a prasinus type monitor would be a horrible choice. As far as a source of good varanid husbandy details, just search this forums archives. You will come up with plenty of info on prasinus type monitors and better captive choices.

Thier only "outragious" need is a keeper highly intuned with varanid behavior and very knowledgeable of their specific needs.

Yeah, the prasinus complex wouldn't be a great choice for a first monitor. Even if you are able to provide for one they are all coming from the wild and ideally would be in the hands of people trying to breed them so they can be established in captivity without the need for capturing more. Since a lot of these species are coming from small islands they are especially vulnerable to over collection and importation is not regulated by any sort of realistic quota. If you like the idea of a more arboreal monitor I would suggest V.tristis. They are all CB and are going to be a lot easier to start with.
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Steve

there is a decent care sheet i believe from the pro-exotic site...
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

i think i spoke out of turn i just looked quick and didnt see it there...

a while back i was asking the same question and (same deal) no one wanted to help so i looked around myself i only found one care sheet and now i cant remember where i got it from. i have it saved copy on my comp though i can send it you you just PM me or something
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Hello Steven,
I think they are great dwarf monitors and the focus on captive breeding them should be greatly escalated. They are every bit as delightful as green tree pythons in my opinion. Try specifying Prasinus in your subject and see if you can get a response from Tom Crutchfield or Prettykttkat- they both keep these beautiful lizards. Best to you- Mike S

Thank you lizardhead and saagboy for at least being possitve. I actually have seen video of tom's green monitors but he dosent seem to have any for sale. I just looked at his site, haven't called. I would be willing to start with a different small aboreal monitor if i can find anouther that is as colorful. I don't want to get an animal just because someone says i should buy it first to get experience. I end up with a monitor i dont want. There are already too many people with herps they dont want or cant care for that i dont need to become anouther. If any one has any suggestions on a monitor that looks as good and stays as small i would love to hear it. What im looking into now is fairly expensive and this is a ressesion. But im not going to get something i'm not interested in. It doesnt really have to be a "starter" lizard. Ive kept herps for 16 years. I dont need anyone to tell me about how hard or easy it is. Im just looking for specific husbandry info. If i get the information, i know how to use it

Like Mike said, see if you can get a response from one of the guys who specializes in them. There's a pretty big divide between people on CB vs WC and taming, but if you approach them right the care is essentially the same, you're just looking at how "tame" of a lizard you'll end up with.

What seems to help the more arboreal species (at least, WC imports - CB babies don't seem to be fazed by much) is giving them lots of options. Hide and be warm, hide and be cold, essentially, lots of hidey holes and visual barriers. Let it settle in, get used to what's going on, before you ever try anything as far as interacting with it. They learn quickly, and after you spend the time with them they do learn the basic routine of care and just give you the eye as you work in their cage.

Keep them warm, and keep them humid (but not sopping wet). Lots of space, otherwise they will pace the cage and rub their nose. They like tiny hides to wedge themselves into. Be patient and don't push it. I think the biggest drawback is whether or not you'll be okay with it if you end up with a shy monitor that doesn't want anything to do with you. I've worked with some trees that would beg for food from anyone walking by, and some that would see just the slightest movement and hide. If you don't have the option to visit a wonderful local reptile store to wait for the right lizard to be up for sale, then it's the luck of the draw what the personality of the monitor you'll end up with is.

I agree with your thought to just go all in on a species you really enjoy than to "learn" on a species that you don't. Frank's formula of "heat em and feed em" works on pretty much everything. I suggest reading up on the proexotics basic FAQ, because it goes over a lot of the care that's more monitor-specific, and will help you fine tune your husbandry from snakes to an arboreal monitor.

Good luck!

~jen
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)

I don't mind an animal I can't handle. The majority of my collection is venomous snakes so i'm kinda used to the hands off situation. We have a repticon show coming up in january and i was thinking of looking there. I would love to get cb but i don't ever seem to see many small ones so i'm guessing most of the ones i've seen are wc. Are there many differences between the blues and greens? About how much do the usually cost because i've seen a preety broad range of prices. I'm guessing if they are priced too low there is a reason, but i would like to pay a fair amount.

Hello,
Get what you are after but keep in mind they will be moderate as far a varanids go in price but you cannot afford to slack at all on the caging- go all out! You will be glad later that you did. Best to You- Mike S

I agree with mike - the monitor itself will likely be the most inexpensive part by the time everything is said and done. Take your time and look around at all the vendors, and check out the list of vendors at the show ahead of time so you can check out the reputations of everyone there.

Build your first cage expecting to decide after 6 months of use that there's a better way to do it, and that you'll rebuild it at least twice.

As far as picking out the lizard, go with your gut. If a deal seems too good to be true... probably is. look for a fat and sassy lizard. Shows are stressful places; the monitor shouldn't be on its best behavior, and if it is, it's probably cold. Babies are available, but usually online and for a price. Jeff Lemm has them occasionally. Nice guy.

Blue trees are a different species. Mackerai, I think? I'm not as familiar with them. Theoretically, the care is the same, and I know there's someone on the forum who works with them and seems to be having success, but I can't speak for him. Any of the blue trees you find for sale are almost guaranteed to be WC imports, though, and folks don't seem to be having the same success with them as with the greens. I don't know if that's due to availability or differences in care, so ask... I think it's bob who has the blue trees? He's got them in nice outdoor enclosures, too.

~jen
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)

I realize the cage will be the most expensive part, but its going to be the most expensive part no matter what i get. I have snakes I paid $30 for in $600s worth of cage. This setup will probably cost WAY more.
I know the blues are a differnt species. I just wanted to confirm the care was the same and see how much size difference there was.

Might I suggest something other then a monitor? It really sounds like your heart set out for a monitor but if your looking for a lizard that's not as aggressive, very nicely colored, arboreal and small then you might want to go with a green basilisk. I had a pair a few years back and they can be pretty docile. Not to mention they are very gorgeous, exotic looking and easy to care for.

Those basalisks do look pretty neat. I might look into them if i can't find the monitors i want (won't buy a poor speciman b/c its the only one available). I'm not really worried about agressive. I currently keep 3 ball pythons, 2 corns, and 1 black rat that are non-aggreessive, but my 2 amazon tree boas, 3 rattlesnakes, rhino, gabboon,copper head, eyelash, and monocled cobra are all a little "hands off" if you know what i mean.

I was thinking of a Corner enclosure (built in with 3 sides) 4' per side and 8' tall. I would put a fog system in and use RHP's for heat. I've read that they don't need UV. Is this true? Would that be large enough for 2? Also if I wanted to try to breed them after they matured would I be better off with more than 2?
Thanks Steven

To increase your chance of success, I would wait until hatchlings or very young and not fully grown juveniles are available. These will likely also be wild caught but you will gain the advantage of an animal that isn't set in it's ways....YOU can establish a routine and the animal will be more likely to adapt.Plus you don't run the risk of purchasing an aging adult with only a few years left. Blue Tree Monitor......in my opinion one of the most striking lizards in the world. Good luck and GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Hello Steve,
Just wanted to give you something to think about... To a blue tree monitor 8 feet off the ground isn't really arboreal(go out and look up into most trees) so when it comes to your cage you may be better off turning that sideways and have 8 feet of usable horizontal exploring space for your lizards to move toward or away from each other and mount the cage up off of the ground 4 feet... I just can't see a tree monitor liking to go to the floor/ground to escape another(and 4 feet away from a harrassing individual isn't that far when your body is 2-3ft long) so alot of that downward space may be a waste- 8'h- 8'w- 4'depth with many hides everywhere and elevated water bowls in several places sounds even better. But whatever you choose I'm sure pics of the new blues would be well accepted here! Best to you- Mike S

P.S. Well acclimated specimens do best and as posted by Jimjum the younger the better...

Light bulbs are a much better bet than RHP for basking spots but RHP are workable for background ambient temps. I think if you lay the cage out properly that should work well for V.prasinus but might be a touch small for V.macreai. Lots of tight fitting cork tubes placed mostly in the top third of the cage will be appreciated. Pairs are a much better way to go for breeding than trios. If you start with a group of younger animals and separate them out as the are old enough to sex. I am glad you are thinking about breeding them and I hope you are successful.

Cheers,
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Steve

I could go a bit bigger than 4' a side but i would like to stay with the corner cage. I'm a carpenter and can build it to look like it belongs. Could i leave them in the same cage all the time or would they have to be in seperate enclosures? I don't have the room for two cages of that size in my house. It will be the only herps in the house b/c i keep my snakes in a dedicated snake building(no hots in the house). I figured i would rather keep these guys in the house not only because they they are beautiful and active (fun to watch) but also because they require more frequent care than the snakes.
I do hope to eventually breed them. It would be exciting and would give me a chance to contribute to the hobby. I don't see any point in breeding my snakes since the market is already flooded with most the breeds i keep. No need to breed a snake that can't find a home. I don't want to do it for money, but why breed something that would be hard to GIVE away?

The RHPs would be to raise ambient. I would put basking lights on a timer as well. With a fog system how much ventalation would i need? I could put the fog on a several times a day timmer or run it all the time. Which would be better?

Ventilation should be limited. Most cages are over ventilated and causes a lot of drying. I would try to make it so you can adjust with like a vent of some kind since you aren't going to know right away what will be needed. As far as misting I would just tailor that to your humidity levels. Females can become aggressive towards males after laying eggs and ideally I would separate them when the female becomes gravid to prevent stress on her though you will get people who will say the opposite. Either way it is a good plan to have a way to separate them if the need arises. If you are limited in cage size a partition to divide the cage in half is a good idea. I would recommend west systems epoxy for waterproofing you wood or lining it with FRP. Anything else probably won't hold up to the wet conditions. Lining the wals with cork tiles or cork underlay will maximize the amount of space available for them to climb. You could even cover the partition in cork so that it wouldn't cut down on as much space.

Hope that helps
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Steve

I am building a cage for my V. macraei. What is FRP? Also, I have done a fair amount of research for trying to find decently priced cork rolls/pieces/tiles. Do you have any recommendations for where to get it? In order to increase the usable surface area I will be purchasing cork regardless. It sounds like you have experience so I thought I would ask.

Thank you for your help in advance!

Steve - sdi

FRP is Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic. It comes in 4'x8' sheets and most home depots have it. You can cut it with tin snips or a saw but the dust is nasty. Glue it on with liquid nails and seal the corners with silicon and you have a super durable water proof finish. Whatever cork you use go thick it will last longer. I think lots of people are using the rolled stuff for floor underlay. I used the zoomed backgrounds for my V.similis and it got pricey quick but I think it is the most aesthetically pleasing option.
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Steve

.

How thick is the FRP? The only4x8 sheets of plastic i could find at lowes was about 1/8 inch stuff back by the bead board. Is that the right stuff?

Yes, that is the stuff. I guess I should have mentioned that it isn't strong enough by itself to make a cage wall. It is more for lining the inside of your wooden cage. You can also get it in different colors if you can find a specialty shop.
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Steve