Reptile & Amphibian Forums

20,000 exotic animals -- and hundreds more dead ones -- seized at Arlington pet wholesaler.
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/1833528.html

What an ass! And you are right on, what great timing! Guys like this should be run out of this industry but people will keep buying from him because he is selling stuff cheap.

Sad story. It's kind of funny that when you do something wrong officials estimate your business to be worth millions but if they were to value it to benefit their cause it would be a $50,000.00 business.
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

I can't help but feel this is part of why I support banning the importation and removal from the wild of species for pets. I would bet top dollar that is where all those animals came from. We already have millions of morph options for BPs, as well as who knows how many species bred regularly in captivity for other pet options? Leave those animals in the wild be!
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Try to sell that to turtle/tortoise breeders! It's not all about snakes and/or Balls in particular!

I feel this way about all species be they snake, turtle, mammal, reptile, bird, fish, etc. Many of these species are having a hard enough time maintaining their populations in the wild when their habitat is being shrunk, fragmented, and polluted. The last thing we need to be doing is removing yet more normal, healthy individuals.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

In many places the ONLY reason these animals habitat isnt being destroid is because animals can be collected & sold!

Dan

Weigh that against how many species have become completely extirpated from their native ranges because of over-harvest by the pet trade. Besides, the salvation of those few species by the pet trade was a side-effect. I think proper conservation and preservation should always come before trying to mitigate the population and habitat loss of a species.

We have more than enough animals in captivity for everyone to have a pretty pet.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

You don't get it!

I'm NOT aware of any species that has become extinct because of the Pet Trade, NOT EVEN ONE. Many species like Bufo periglenes have become extinct for unknown reasons. If we had caught a bunch and bred them they would exist today for reintroduction if possible....thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Here's the funny thing, I don't believe any of these animals originated in "Lincoln, NE"
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Yup, not even the husband or crazy cat.

So, now that you have your descendants of WILD/IMPORTED stock, everything else should be banned? How many of those morphs were founded by imported animals in RECENT history? So, you clearly support something you are trying to convince others to ban. But, you have what YOU want, so NOW we should ban it, correct? This is almost equal to people talking bad about Burmese owners, forgetting those animals helped found the morph market and set a stage for "investment" animals. So, take out that part of the hobby and things would be very different today. Take out the import part, and you have ZERO ball market. So be glad others before you were willing to put in time, money, and hard work with imports, to get you where you're at today. Unless you figured out how to keep and breed ball pythons all on your own.....didn't think so.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. SUSTAINABLE UTILIZATION OF WILDLIFE IS THE ONLY CHANCE IT HAS. I COINED THE PHRASE "CONSERVATION THRU COMMERCIALIZATION" MANY YEARS AGO AND IT STILL STANDS TRUE TODAY. Only those who haven't traveled and seen want to save everything. You can't control what a native Asian or African does at home. These folks are like you and I and want the same things. In some African languages the word for animal literaly translated means "bush meat". TOTAL BANS WILL BE DETRIMENTAL TO THE SURVIVAL OF MOST SPECIES.Please educate yourselves BEFORE making brash statements. I ALMOST NEVER IMPORT EXCEPT FOR SOMETHING VERY RARE OR NEW so it is NOT a conflict of interest. I DO NOT DO PET STORE BUSINESS AT ALL...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom shows a great point. It is seen even more in the "exotic" animal industry. The huge ranches in Texas had larger and healthier populations of some of the rearest species of hoof stock from around the world. Many of these ranches were sharing knowledge with renowed zoos and foreign conservation groups on their success with these endangered species. However, special intrest groups (HSUS, PETA) and the federal government deciced in their vast health of knowledge that these privately owned games animals could no longer cross atate lines after a hunter paid his fee, unlike the ability to bring in "endangered tropies from other countries. So, the ranchers after a few years of playing the BS game with the feds and their bogus inspections and hidden agenda showed everyone a what for. They simply stop breeding and raising the rarest collection of hoofstock in the world. Now who knows of some of these animals or the regions they came from? It is sad but true, if you remove value from an animal or anything for that matter it becomes a ghost.

There are obvious problems with importing animals of any species just as there are obvious benefits. I think it's a matter of personal responsibility and adequate regulation. If there is a low population of any animal in an ecosystem than it is best to support them in their natural environment so they can recover, it's amazing how well populations can rebound when they are protected from habitat destruction and hunting/collecting. For animals that are in severe jeopardy in the wild then captive breeding can keep the species going until they can hopefully be reintroduced in the wild. There are many species that have been close to extinction that are now back in the wild thanks to captive breeding programs.

If people were more responsible about where they bought their pets from then that would control a lot of these sick and diseased imports. There are responsible importers but there seem to be just as many irresponsible ones who just want to sell cheap pets and couldn't give a damn if they survive in captivity or the wild. The problem is a lot of people simply don't know any better. And if you're ordering off some website than it becomes even harder to determine the background of the animal you're purchasing. The same problem exists with puppy mills. I personally would rather spend the money on an animal from a company that I know to be reputable, meaning they actually have a location you can visit and see their breeding program and speak with them or from breeders that have been recommended to me from people I trust. It's still not a guarantee but it greatly increases the odds that the animals were either bred or obtained in an ethical and humane manner. I NEVER purchase anything from pet stores, particularly large chain pet stores because I don't wan't to support them.

I love my snakes and lizards but if I had to chose between them thriving in the wild or thriving in captivity I would definitely choose the wild. But I think we can do both. Anyway just my opinion : )

Make NO mistake seeing any herp in situ is far more rewarding to me than seeing one in my cages. I go field herping once or twice a week just to LOOK and sometimes take pics. Down here where I am I could go out ANY day and in under two hours catch a dozen or so Corn Snakes if I chose to do so. The Ball Pythons in Africa are ranched NOT farmed as many say. That is the natives collect wild gravid females and wait for them to lay eggs. When they do they take them back to the same termite mound and release them. If no one bought the babies they would kill and sell the skin of the adult. Mortality on wild babies is likely over 85% anyway. This does NOT harm the wild population at all BUT KILLING THE BREEDERS FOR SKINS WOULD. This is a GREAT example of sustainable use of wildlife and every village guards their snakes because they make money EVERY YEAR. I hope you folks understand this clearly. Did you ever wonder why there are more baby Balls imported now than ever before? It's because the adults are increasing in numbers. Taking most baby reptiles has little to NO effect on wild populations.
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I think programs like that are great. One of the few good things good happening in the conservation movement is that local movements are spreading as far as protecting ecosystems and supporting responsible ways of collecting animals to sell. I just wanted to point out that there are still problems with importing reptiles. I think the problem is more apparent with lizards. It's very hard to find Asian Water Dragons that aren't wild caught. They're not collected in a very nice manner and most die before ever making it to the US. I don't support the python ban because I don't think it will really help anything. It just makes me sad when I see articles about irresponsible people shipping in massive quantities of reptiles and the animals suffering and dying in the process.