Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/typh1209/index.html

IMO, the CDC is clearly biased against reptiles. If you look at the actual statistics reported by the CDC, they lean towards the highest possible figure they can estimate / predict when it comes to reptile associated Salmonella infections. They also use alarmist language and don't emphasize that 70% to 80% of those infected with reptile type Salmonella are younger than 10 years old.

Any prudent parent should supervise their young children when handling reptiles, and simple hand washing will prevent reptile associated Salmonella infections from occurring.

The truth is that you're about as likely to catch Salmonella from a reptile as you are from eating a beacon and eggs breakfast in a restaurant.

Here are some actual cases of how people get Salmonella from food:

foodpoisoning.pritzkerlaw.com/archives/cat-salmonella.html

Church chicken dinners can be deadly from undercooked meat.

This doesn't help our cause any. However, this provides more impact on the Aquarium Hobby as their next victim.
In addition to keeping our beloved Boids and Pythons, I have actively been involved in the aquarium trade from the Retail Side for the past 15 years as well as being involved with the fish hobby for about 25 years now (I'm currently 42). On average, my hands are in Fish Tank water from 1 to 2 hours on a daily basis. I manage a fairly large fish department in the local pet store and have done so for the past 7 years. I even had about 65 species of breeder African Cichlids in my basement for two years straight. I had approximately 75 tanks running (about 2,000 gallons) with breeder's, fry and grow out fish. Not once have I ever contracted Salmonella. This is saying a lot since I regularly get cuts and scrapes on my hands and even pick out dead fish bare handed. (OK, I know it's not best practice).

The Pod Cast clearly makes a play against the aquarium hobby as if all aquariums carry the Salmonella bacteria. While I do agree that an improperly maintained aquarium has the potential to carry the bacteria (especially if you have fish dying in the tanks and not being removed promptly), you are more likely to contract the bacteria from food (salads, fish, poultry) that was improperly prepared.

The HSUS is clearly trying to link the African Clawed and Dwarf Aquatic frogs to the bacteria in the fish tanks. These frogs may be a bit more likely of contracting and passing the bacteria due to improper tank temperatures. The standard temperature for most fresh water aquariums is between 75 and 78 degrees. Unfortunately, all aquariums are subjected to improper temperatures on a regular basis. When you throw the frogs into the mix and they are not allowed to properly digest their foods due to lower than optimal temps, you elevate the possibility that they could contract and carry/pass on the bacteria through their waste.

I don't know if anyone remembers a few years back when the drug stores (Walgreen's, CVS, etc.) were carrying the "AQUABABIES" Cubes. I remember seeing many of these that had Dwarf Aquatic Frogs in them. I said back then that was not a good idea. Unfortunately, I doubt very much that the person that came up with that idea was ever scrutinized by the HSUS for their idea to sell the frogs in that manner. I also doubt that that sells gimmick was ever passed by anyone that knows anything about reptiles before they tried to cash in.

In the store, we sell Newts and Dwarf frogs along with our multitude of fish (we are the experts in our locality). I have always instructed my clients on the possibilities of the Salmonella bacteria when they purchase the frogs and the proper care and methods of avoiding Salmonella. Remember that the key here is properly maintained systems and correct temperatures.

With all that in mind, I ran across an article from October 2008 in which the HSUS states that "Reptiles carry Salmonella". They didn't say "may" or "could" but implied that all reptiles carry the bacteria. Someone in the HSUS organization is very misguided and ill-informed.
See: http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/resources/news/reptiles/205-woman-s-death-leads-to-calls-for-python-regulations.htm

Some of my first Boa's that I kept were Amazon Tree boas, Emerald Tree Boas and Green Tree Pythons. In my attempt to do them right, I did my research and found that while the potential for snakes to carry the bacteria exists (especially with the arboreal, bird eating species), proper husbandry techniques and optimal basking site temperatures would minimize any risk of contracting the bacteria in the first place. Further personal use of a good anti-bacterial soap and good washing techniques go the rest of the way.

CCR

It does frustrate me that the CDC does exhibit this sort of bias, although they do have good recommendations to prevent exposure. What really irritates me though, is when my infant daughter was sick in the hospital this past winter; when obtaining a history, the doc asked if we had any pets. I responded with we had cats, dogs, fish and reptiles. I also mentioned that I'm a zookeeper who works with primates, various avian taxa, etc. He then proceeds to lecture me about salmonellosis associated with reptiles. I went nuts. I fired back with dog bite stats, cat scratch fever, TB from birds and primates, various flus(again- primates, birds and felids), parasitic infection from all animals, etc. Yet, the jackass lectures me about reptile related salmonella. I finished with saying that I am a professional animal handler--I know how to prevent zoonoses; I don't tell him about human anatomy, so he shouldn't lecture me on the basics of my profession either. He left rather humbled. I normally would not have reacted that way, but he ignored every other creature that I come in contact with that could be the source of some sort of infection or pose a threat to the health of my daughter and targeted herps. Her symptoms were not even digestive, either--so there was no reason to talk about salmonella.

Wow, you have a better chance of contracting something more serious than Salmonella from the animals you come in contact with.

This is not the first I have heared of Doctors having this view. Since working at the local pet store I have spoken with several women who had been convinced to turn in their pet snakes (mostly Ball Pythons) once they became pregnant because thier doctors had put the fear of god in then with mention that thier animals carried Salmonella. After I had talked to them, most ended up feeling prety bad, not for what I had said but because they were getting rid of a favored pet.

I'm not quite sure where their doctors came up with this impression but they are very uninformed on the issue for doctors. Maybe I will see if I can get ahold of the doctor that delivered my son and see what he has to say on the issue.

Chris,
Indiana

I know, right? That's why I got so pissed. I'm required to get rabies shots, TB tests etc. for my job yet I get a lecture about reptile-related salmonella. My wife joined a pregnancy forum and got her butt chewed for having herps. She just brushed it off though, since some other women were getting chewed for drinking tap water lol. Ridiculous.

I am a type 1 diabetic and have been since the age of four. I began contact with my brothers pet reptiles a year or two later. My health has never suffered from zoonoses or from contact with my pets, the animals I have worked with at a zoo, or the pet shops I have worked for. CDC is part of an anti-pet agenda, along with HSUS and certain politicians and the campaign they are waging is on T.V., the radio and the internet. I feel we should counter with the truth everywhere and in every way we can. We need ideas and we need a team of leaders pushing our view. By the way, scrap the public option for my health care but allow me the pleasure of working with the animals I love, please.

I once commented to a friend of mine, "How do you think your patients would react if they knew you were elbow deep in snake crap half the time?" Elicited a knowing smile.
How unfortunate, the authority figures we look to for guidance, are so frequently leading us back into the Dark Ages themselves. Oh well. What you gonna do.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I do not wish to be labeled a nut, but...... I believe now might be a good time to form a reptile and amphibian hobbyist/industry think tank ( if one does not yet exist ). It could be comprised of commercial/private breeders, dedicated hobbyists, importers, manufacturers, associations and anyone with a driving interest in the future of captive breeding, keeping and the fate of herps in captivity and the wild. It could be decentralized and loosely organized by those best able to respond to and direct the attention we are given and the future we may or may not have. I see something in that direction as critical for the future whether the python ban passes or not. Its not going to get any easier. How many Asian turtle and tortoise breeders consider the future in the wild of the species with which they are dedicated? Amphibian breeders? If this kind of legislation is passed, we will be one generation or less from a future in which children will never educate themselves about the natural world in ways which we take for granted. I think that is nutty.

A "Cross-Functional Group", if you will, or whatever else we decide to refer to it by is probably very needed at this point. Our Laws in Indiana are already very strict when it comes to native reptile species. We already have a native species regulation statewide that will not allow us to keep any species of reptile or amphibian that has at any time been cited as being native to the state and as far as I understand it, if they can live in the surrounding states then they are not legal either. In the north central portion of the state in St. Joe County, they had passed a constrictor bill several years ago that almost made it impossible to even sell kings and corns. Boas and Pythons were illegal and there is only one person that I am aware of that was legally allowed to keep any of them. That was Dean Mayfield of DM Reptiles. He has since sold all of his stock and as far as I know and gotten completely out of the reptile business for now, possibly indefinitely.