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Trying to better understand all this????

1radsunglow Dec 20, 2009 12:58 PM

Lacey Act, Define it please?- This bill makes animals on this bill illegal to collect, right? Also means no trade of these said animals? So in all reality this bill would make them illegal to own if passed right? So we are all being so concerned of not being able to ship or sell from state to state, when the big nail has actually been driven home if this ammendment is passed, and the 9 big constrictors are added to the lacey act by the supreme court, right? Sorry for any confusion, I have been really trying to study all that is going on with this crap! I just want to understand everything correctly. Thanks for any help in my process of trying to better educate myself of these things.

Eric

Replies (10)

Doug T Dec 20, 2009 01:26 PM

Under the Lacey Act you may not transport across state lines any individual or part of an animal on the list. If you do it's a felony. If S373 passes as is, you would actually commit a FELONY by wearing a belt made of Burmese Python skin and crossing a state line. It's not just live animals, nor does it just mean sales.

It would NOT necessarily make them illegal to own or sell INSIDE your state. That would depend on your own state.

It's the US Congress that would make the law, not the Supreme Court.

It would effectively end the keeping of the listed snakes by attrition.

>>Lacey Act, Define it please?- This bill makes animals on this bill illegal to collect, right? Also means no trade of these said animals? So in all reality this bill would make them illegal to own if passed right? So we are all being so concerned of not being able to ship or sell from state to state, when the big nail has actually been driven home if this ammendment is passed, and the 9 big constrictors are added to the lacey act by the supreme court, right? Sorry for any confusion, I have been really trying to study all that is going on with this crap! I just want to understand everything correctly. Thanks for any help in my process of trying to better educate myself of these things.
>>
>>Eric

Jonathan_Brady Dec 20, 2009 01:52 PM

I was also under the impression that it would be illegal to transport across state lines, finished goods made from animal skins (ie, belts, hats, wallets, etc..).

I have since found out that finished products are exempt from the Lacey Act and only the raw materials are subject to its provisions.

Thought I'd share that since I helped perpetuate that myth.

jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Doug T Dec 20, 2009 09:00 PM

Would the raw materials be skins or pythons?

Doug T
>>I was also under the impression that it would be illegal to transport across state lines, finished goods made from animal skins (ie, belts, hats, wallets, etc..).
>>
>>I have since found out that finished products are exempt from the Lacey Act and only the raw materials are subject to its provisions.
>>
>>Thought I'd share that since I helped perpetuate that myth.
>>
>>jb
>>-----
>>What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously
>>
>>Jonathan Brady
>>DeviantConstrictors.com
>>Deviant Constrictors picturetrail
>>

Jonathan_Brady Dec 20, 2009 09:18 PM

I meant skins, but both, I suppose!
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Doug T Dec 20, 2009 10:01 PM

Hmmmm.... How ridiculous is that? A felony for a skin-Legal for a belt.

Thanks for the insight JB.

Doug T

>>I meant skins, but both, I suppose!
>>-----
>>What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously
>>
>>Jonathan Brady
>>DeviantConstrictors.com
>>Deviant Constrictors picturetrail
>>

Doug Taylor Reptiles
Doug Taylor Reptiles

Jonathan_Brady Dec 20, 2009 11:58 PM

It made sense 110 years ago when the Lacey Act was drafted! lol

It was a provision to prevent poaching.

BTW, GORGEOUS GREEN PHASE SANZINIA!!! I had a male that was just beautiful but I could never find a suitable female for him, so I sold him. That's one I wish I had back

jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Doug T Dec 21, 2009 08:48 AM

My pair is mating again as I write this. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few more pairs out there for folks.

Doug T

>>BTW, GORGEOUS GREEN PHASE SANZINIA!!! I had a male that was just beautiful but I could never find a suitable female for him, so I sold him. That's one I wish I had back
>>
>>jb
Doug Taylor Reptiles

1radsunglow Dec 20, 2009 03:06 PM

Thank you Doug, I appriciate your help.

Jonathan_Brady Dec 20, 2009 01:51 PM

I think it's important to read this, so everyone can know EXACTLY what is happening here.

CLICK HERE TO READ THE LACEY ACT

Here are the main parts:

They're looking to add the 9 constrictors to this part of the Lacey Act:

(g) Prohibited wildlife species--The term “prohibited wildlife species” means any live species of lion, tiger, leopard, cheetah, jaguar, or cougar or any hybrid of such a species.

***Language of the Lacey Act***

It is unlawful for any person--

(1) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law;

(2) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce--

(A) any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State or in violation of any foreign law;

(B) any plant-- ***(I'M LEAVING THIS PART OUT AS IT'S NOT APPLICABLE TO USE AS KEEPERS OF ANIMALS)***

(C) any prohibited wildlife species (subject to subsection (e) of this section);

(3) within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States (as defined in section 7 of Title 18)--

(A) to possess any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State or in violation of any foreign law or Indian tribal law, or

(B) to possess any plant-- ***(AGAIN, LEAVING THIS PART OUT)***

(b) Marking offenses

It is unlawful for any person to import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife unless the container or package has previously been plainly marked, labeled, or tagged in accordance with the regulations issued pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title.

(c) Sale and purchase of guiding and outfitting services and invalid licenses and permits

(1) Sale

It is deemed to be a sale of fish or wildlife in violation of this chapter for a person for money or other consideration to offer or provide--

(A) guiding, outfitting, or other services; or

(B) a hunting or fishing license or permit;

for the illegal taking, acquiring, receiving, transporting, or possessing of fish or wildlife.

(2) Purchase

It is deemed to be a purchase of fish or wildlife in violation of this chapter for a person to obtain for money or other consideration--

(A) guiding, outfitting, or other services; or

(B) a hunting or fishing license or permit;

for the illegal taking, acquiring, receiving, transporting, or possessing of fish or wildlife.

(d) False labeling offenses

It is unlawful for any person to make or submit any false record, account, or label for, or any false identification of, any fish, wildlife, or plant which has been, or is intended to be--

(1) imported, exported, transported, sold, purchased, or received from any foreign country; or

(2) transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

(1) In general

Subsection (a)(2)(C) of this section does not apply to importation, exportation, transportation, sale, receipt, acquisition, or purchase of an animal of a prohibited wildlife species, by a person that, under regulations prescribed under paragraph (3), is described in paragraph (2) with respect to that species.

(2) Persons described

A person is described in this paragraph, if the person--

(A) is licensed or registered, and inspected, by the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service or any other Federal agency with respect to that species;

(B) is a State college, university, or agency, State-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, or State-licensed veterinarian;

(C) is an accredited wildlife sanctuary that cares for prohibited wildlife species and--

(i) is a corporation that is exempt from taxation under section 501(a) of Title 26 and described in sections 501(c)(3) and 170(b)(1)(A)(vi) of Title 26;

(ii) does not commercially trade in animals listed in section 3371(g) of this title, including offspring, parts, and byproducts of such animals;

(iii) does not propagate animals listed in section 3371(g) of this title; and

(iv) does not allow direct contact between the public and animals; or

(D) has custody of the animal solely for the purpose of expeditiously transporting the animal to a person described in this paragraph with respect to the species.

The rest of the link goes on to describe the penalties of violating the Lacey Act, as well as what you'll have to forfeit (the vessel you're using to transport anything listed in the Lacey Act, ie, your car, boat, airplane, etc..) as well as other info.

I think it's helpful to know that the Lacey Act is 110 years old. The US isn't now, what it was then. The main purpose of this act was to prevent "poaching" - or, people crossing state lines to kill animals, skin them, and bring their skins back over the state line to be sold. That's why you see language about "guiding, outfitting, and other services". These people needed GUIDES to get around in the wild!!! And they'd trade skins for it rather than paying them money. Seriously, how outdated is this crap?!

Basically, it won't be illegal to own them, breed them, sell them, etc. AS LONG AS YOU DO IT ALL WITHIN STATE LINES!!!!!! This means our hobby can continue, but due to the DRASTICALLY reduced demand, prices will more than likely plummet in most states as the supply will exceed demand, especially in a state like Florida - where I, unfortunately live.

It WILL be illegal to sell, mislabel the shipping container, transport across, import, export, receive, acquire or anything else having to do with state lines, these animals should they be added to the Lacey Act. Also, the Supreme Court has nothing to do with this.

Hope that helps!
jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

1radsunglow Dec 20, 2009 03:08 PM

Thanks again JB, This is a real big help to me.

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