Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The seller said he would not call them Applegates, any ideas why?
These are my first pits. They are very cranky (LOL!)

Not a pit expert, but I believe the term Applegate refers to a particular strain of albinism in a particular subspecies of gopher snake propagated by Robert Applegate. Not all albino gophers can be called Applegates.

To be called Applegates?

NOT if they are not that particular strain of albino (the Applegate strain)and not if they are not San Diego gophers (which if not mistaken is the subspecies with that strain of albinism propogated by Applegate is in). The fact the vendor didnt call them Applegates is also a pretty good indicator they are not Applegates. What subspecies are they?

I purchased a albino male and het female as babies from Bob way back in the day when he 1st started dispersing babies sired by his original male. This after seeing that sire in person; a magnificent animal to say the least. Compared to other albino annectans morphs of the day (who's albinism was suspected as being sourced from P.c.catenifer) he was so clean in the the white dorsal blotches as to appear luminous, and this over a burnt orange background that served to contrast with the white! In time my male would grow to mirror his sire's charactoristics. With that said, while viewing dozens of babies at Bob's there was of course some variability, as some would be more of a golden color in the background, but still retaining the uniformity of blotches, the ladder-like pattern that your animals display. The point is your animals look like Applegate's but that's not an exact science! What does your source regard them as being? What motivations might be in place to suggest they are something else? Remember that Bob didn't catch that original male, and the original females would be sourced from anywhere in the San Diego hills! As long as they are pure annectans, thay are winners. Let 'em grow for a year and post updated pictures.. they'll be pretty to any pit fan.

That the spots, in person appear much more pink, purple then they appear in the pictures. Is it possible that these might be the opposite form of albinism? (T- vs. T poss) That is the only reason I could think of for not decribing them as "Applegates". They are far cleaner, then some of the other animals, that I have seen being sold as "Applegates".

That is possible. As mentioned before, there is a reason the vendor didnt sell them as applegates, and only they can say why the are not classified as applegates. Its a genetic (and to some degree phenotype) thing with Applegates if I am correct, not just a phenotype thing. Like locality. Your animals can look exactly like or even better than Applegates all day long, but if not that particular strain of albinism or subspecies, they will never be.

Give them time! The blotches will get whiter... You were pink upon hatching too!

I suspect your breeder was being contientious and couldn't absolutely prove they were 100% Applegate Albinos. I have a pair I'm working with now that I have to treat the babies the same way, eventhough the mother is an Applegate.

The link below shows the babies this pair has produced and as neonates I could have sold them off as Applegates 'cause the mom is and they sure look like Applegates but as they grew they turned more "yellow". They are beautiful but now I'm wondering if the dad's influence was Bechtel albino as they look more like Bechtels as they age. I'll be able to do breeding trials this year or next and should see some neat offspring. But at this point, I'm thinking my Snow dad has Bechtel albino in him.
Page Showing Color Change in Albino SD Gophers

-----
Ken Roshak
BlackSwampSerpents@toast.net

Hi Ken,

just spotted your post! very interesting subject,fire me an email and i'll post you pics of some more verieties.

RGDS......AL

alanstotton@btinternet.com

You have gotten a lot of good information about your animals from the other posters and I just wanted to add the following.

It may be a situation where the vendor did not want to label his animals as "Applegates". Bob used this conotation as a marketing tool for the animals he produced.

Many folks hate that type stuff and sell animals that display the high white and distinctive pattern that his animals had merely as high white or something that is referring to actual coloration and or pattern.

As one of the other posters mentioned, Bob did not collect his original male in fact it came for Randy Limburg.

Just because you have animals that did not sell with the "Applegate" moniker does not make them any less appealing or beautiful.

There a number of reason for the lack of that moniker, particuarly among the older herpers in the hobby.

Just my cents worth on the subject.

Cherryville Farms

Hi Al,
Email sent.

Ken
-----
Ken Roshak
BlackSwampSerpents@toast.net