Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A buddy of mine Bert Lucas just caught this brooks near my farm and he sent me this pic. These are exceedingly RARE nowdays...

Sorry not a good pic but rare enough to post...
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

AWESOME Tom!!!,....

Hard to beat a nice W/C brooksi. Hope I(we) can be so lucky when I get down there soon buddy. That, and a couple other things would REALLY make my day man! Ain't Patty the lucky one..LOL!

Looks like it had it pretty tough out there in the wild. Now it can enjoy a few tasty plump rodents in captivity..LOL!

Merry Christmas my friend!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Nice animal. Looks like a few rodents will shape him up.
Thanks for the email.
Merry Christmas.
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

NICE FIND BY YOUR BUDDY AND TELL HIM THANKS FOR THE PIC.

i WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD ASK HIM IF HE TOOK ANY BETTER CLOSEUPS FROM THAT SNAKE? Tell him inquiring inds want to know.

[dAMN CAP locks], I wasn't yellin at you Tom,honest.. tee hee..
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

He gave it to Patty so I'll take some tomorrow. It's a thin male with INCREDIBLE color...thanks
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

That is what i thought. That it was a male and incredibly light. Can you give an appoximate location of this find? Just for us diehards to drool.

It is great to see that pure classic looking brooksi are still found. Few and far between however.

thanks for sharing.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

VERY CLOSE TO MY FARM AT 35000 SW 212 AVE, HOMESTEAD, FL 33034 UNDER SOME TIN BY THE ROADSIDE...
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Hey Tom,

Over the past couple years my buddies and I have found about 15 live brooksi from South Dade. None of them were good and plump when found, and the majority were pretty underweight. Despite our efforts, most of the kings we tried keeping from out there died within a few months.

In the contrast, the kings we've found in North Dade have done well in captivity, and even bred and produced eggs within a couple months of being captured. Too bad they're usually pretty dark. We call them "black brooksi".

Whaddaya mean too bad they're so dark? I LOVE the one I got from you. I like 'em dark!

Hope your Florida jaunt was all that it should have been.

Here's a pic of his mate in a few years. And she's dark!

So I decide to spend my Christmas day out in the field hoping to find some nice herps, maybe something to add to my collection. I find this one location, near Toms farm and start flipping tin. The third tin i lift and out pops this fellow. I immediately id it as a FL king and put him into a pillow case. I walk a little, thinking he was very light colored to be a FL king so I take that crappy picture just to email to Tom for positive identification. The snake was very squirmy so he did not really pose well for the camera. And I didnt really want to stress him out more than necessary so I put him back in the bag.
Tom emailed me back almost immediately and with all capital letters wrote " THATS A BROOKSI!"
That was pretty exciting news for me and just the start of a fantastic day of herping in the field.
I gave the snake to Tom figuring if anyone could turn him around it would be him.
I hope he acclimates well to life in captivity and becomes a proud papa one of these days.
Bert
-----
1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old

Cool story Bert. Especially for this time of year. Most of us are in cold climates right now and can only fantazie your find. Thanks for sharing.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

It dipped below 0 degrees here this week. The only herp I've seen outside in months is a bronze statue of a horned lizard I got for Christmas....*sigh*

I have to admit that South Florida has a wonderful climate. Who would imagine that I would be in shorts, shirt off and field herping in December.
I feel for you guys that live in the north. But just think, in 100 years, your location may warm 1 degree thanks to global warming
-----
1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old

Nice to see a real locale Brooks from the Redlands. This location is just east of the entrance to Everglades National Park and is basically the location where all the best captive produced Brooks have originated from, give or take a few miles. This guy has obviously not been munching any of those baby Burms down there. I hope we get to hear if it has some kind of parasite load or something that may be prevalent in the Brooks down there now. They used to get pretty fat on turtle eggs in the good old days. I think now the fire ants get to them before the kingsnakes get to feast. Tom, please let us know how this guy makes out.

" I think now the fire ants get to them before the kingsnakes get to feast"

Yeah bro, Those fire ants are a MOJOR problem with egg clutches down in Florida. I was JUST talking to my friend about that very same thing just today!

I can just picture in my mind all the reptile clutches at hatching time, and those freakin ants getting a wiff of the yolk from the egg while it is pipping. They would be eating the hatchlings LIVE in no time flat. Same with gator eggs, turtles, snakes, and anything else that moves.

Very sad thing indeed.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I agree on this . The ants are the worst thing. And they hang around the tree lines, just the same place as snakes do.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Yeah, I saw a documentary a while back where there was two biologists that were counting viable alligator eggs from MANY gator nests all around, and they were getting eaten up by ants big-time while doing this.

Those little bastard ants are native to Argentina.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

LOL , i thought snakes hung out in the everglades where if you have a flat tire out on Tamiami Trl. you and your crew, flip a coin to see who will go out and change it in the prescence of giant pythons patroling the perimeter canals after realizing the snake thing is just a myth. Everyone out to change tire !
THEN everyone does a Hop dance and slapping their ankles to kill the fire ant that have attacked ......go figure

Someone is deliberately painting that picture of the Everglades (and it’s working). We need to find out “who” and “why” and you will get to the bottom of the python “problem”.

"Someone is deliberately painting that picture of the Everglades (and it’s working). We need to find out “who” and “why” and you will get to the bottom of the python “problem”"

Yes, there is an aweful lot of substance in what you just said there my friend. When it comes to snakes and the general public, there IS NO positive information spread, ONLY negative sensationalism......period!

Very sad, yet very true.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I believe it is the career politician looking for the easy "notch" on his gun. Of course they have the help of the media, who are more in the manipulation and entertainment business now than actual reporting.
-----
Kevin Harrell
www.harrellandsonsherps.com

Well said Kevin and Accurate IMHO

I believe it was more sinister than that. I don’t think many are aware that we have built out down here, that is every available plot of land is spoken for or gone right to the very edge of the everglades. If they don’t find a way to get that land, the construction and development folks are in deep doo doo. I believe there is a publicity plan to make folks believe that the everglades is a bad place, already ruined and not worth protecting. I do not doubt the pythons were bought by the people who are behind this and deliberately released by them. I know a lot of people who’s first snake was a boa constrictor. They were the first popular exotic import for the pet trade. If it were true that the burmese were started from deliberate occasional pet release and able to establish themselves like they have, then the boa would have been long established first. The burmese success at establishing here is unprecedented in history and fairly unbelievable if you just think logically about it. It was almost imposable without some deliberate plan. Someone should go through the import records and see who brought in the ones that didn’t end up going out to the trade. Someone paid for them and did this on purpose.

If you read Dave and Tracy Barkers paper on Burmese in the Everglades, they have a very plausible explanation for that species establishment there.
http://www.vpi.com/sites/vpi.com/files/OnBurmese_Florida_compressed.pdf
-----
1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old

Yeah, they hang around the treeline, and one foot from the treeline, two feet, three feet, in pastures,under tin, in my chicken coop, in the cracks of my driveway, on my feet if I stand too long in one place, they are everywhere down here, I HATE fireants! When my chickens hatch they usually don't make it past three days because the fireants get them.
-----
Kevin Harrell
www.harrellandsonsherps.com

Beware if floodwater covers their nest. They have the clever trick of forming little floating rafts of ant by hanging on to each other. A fun thing to wade into.

Whats up Lindsay? Yeah, that year we had all the hurricanes, our neighborhood flooded and the ant balls were so big floating through the water they looked like barges.

as a Houstonian (former) fire ants are evil incarnate. I stepped in a mound mowing my front lawn once...I felt like my leg was on fire. Godawful pain.

Doug do you have definitive proof of fire ants "feasting" or otherwise preying on the eggs/newborns?
I have found egg clutches in antbeds/hills and later returned to find them hatched but I didn't see any little skeletons nearby...
I think this theory is a bit overblown but I sure hate them critters!

:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Well, I personally don't have any field data, but it's pretty obvious to me that the ants don't kill all, or even most of them as they hatch, but they no doubt take their fare shake of things now and then. I would also think this would greatly depend on many certain factors and conditions too. Just like Piranha only attack in certain conditions, seasons, etc... they are grossly misunderstood as well by most folks.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I have proof.

Aorund my house I have had several escapie snakes and when I finally find them they have been attacked and eaten by the fireants.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Sorry. I'm talking about wild snakes but I hear ya.
I'm sure it happens but I want more than "I have proof"
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I've seen the fire ants covering newly hatched alligators by the hundreds as they where coming out of the egg on more than one documentary in the past, and I know for a fact that many times fire ants live in the very nest mounds themselves. I'm quite sure what I saw wasn't "staged" for the sake of a camera shot either.

But no, I didn't discover any of this on my own personal airboat with clipboard in hand to jot down the data, but I'm sure it is a fairly common occurrence nonetheless in many parts of the south. Sure, I would assume most clutches as a whole go on to hatch successfully and leave the nest, but I'm also pretty sure some do not get that luxury.

It would be interesting to find some hard data on any studies of this sort though, to see what the percentages really are.

Now I don't have any visual proof of this myself, but my logic tells me this would also happen to snake once in a while too as they hatched. I'll bet when those freakin ants sense all that tasty yolk drizzling out of the egg, they come runnin by the groves to devour the yolk and ANYTHING that has yolk on it as well.

I'll bet if you were to crack an egg and leave it anywhere near a fire ant nest, it would look like a Los Angeles riot in short order!..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Found this too on first google hit. I'm sure there is tons more about it.

fire ant casualties

-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

...everywhere, I tell ya!
I think they're just letting us live here for a while.....
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I hear ya Mark.,.......

Maybe it is the fire ants that will take over the world at some point..LOL!, and only when there is no other life to sustain THEM anymore, nothing will be left..HAHAHAAA!

I'd like to see them in their native habitat(Argentina), and see what they eat as well. There is all sorts of good "viddles" in the jungles over there for them to feast upon.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I used to raise box turtles outside in a more or less farm raised type way. I would take any eggs inside to hatch them as I saw them being laid or found them right after being laid. The ones I did not find had a low hatch rate due to the fire ants getting to them. Some I would find at the end of the year before Fall temps got too cool. I would dig the dirt up so the turtles could go down for the winter. I found quite a few egg shells empty with ant holes in them. Some has small turtle bones in them.
If you go herping where fire ants are not as bad you find way higher numbers of herps. On the other hand go herping where fire ants are bad and even in places where there should be lots of herps there are few to none.
I am more than sure the fire ants are a way bigger threat to herps than we even may know.
Another reason to support captive breeding and keeping of pure types of reptiles. In the future who knows if they will still be there or not?
-----
Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~

Who knows exactly what the future holds for many things. Many years ago, the people never thought any of the animals they saw would become extinct either.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Fire ants are probably in no way helpful to herp populations, but some of the strongest herp populations in the southeast are in areas with the strongest fire ant populations. Habitats and conditions that favor one often favor the other.

There has to be some definite merrit to what you stated there Nick. After all, only the strong survive many times.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I can find 50 or so emory's or western diamond back rattlers in North Central TX in the Spring easy on just one good hill. I have never heard of those kind of numbers coming out of deep South East fire ant country.
When you flip real good tin and there are loads of fire ants and no herps I just have to think they can't live under that tin in the middle of an ant bed like that. The fire ants here in East Texas are in the old rotten tree stumps and logs too.
With the way they are eating eggs in outdoor pens and have been documented as eating hatchlings as soon as they hatch, I doubt they are not having an impact.
I have to ask how many hatchlings do you see in those areas were the fire ants are bad? Adults can get away from them better so seeing a lot of adults doesn't mean the ants are not getting to the eggs and hatchlings.
Also it all depends on the species. I am sure some have managed to find a way around the ants to some extent.
Anyway I have yet to hear of a report that says fire ants are good for reptile populations.
-----
Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~