Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Something I'm seeing a lot of is that people are guaranteeing the animal and offering refunds "Less shipping costs." Let's get real about a few things:

1) Shipping costs are usually at LEAST $50 plus box, heat pack, etc. -- often nearly as much as the animal itself. If your guarantee is "less shipping costs" you're still basically expecting them to eat a big chunk of money because you screwed up. If their only fault was doing business with you, that's not equitable.

2) A. If it's a matter of buyer remorse, then that may make sense. If you provide size/weight/accurate pics and they don't like it when they get it, that's on them. But...
2) B. if the wrong snake is shipped, or it has been misrepresented, if it arrives dead, etc., that's another matter entirely. It's simply not right or fair that the buyer be out one red cent when he's purchasing from you sight-unseen and is "wrong" (Gender or size error, etc.) if I send out a female and it turns out to be a male, shipping BOTH ways is on me.

What do you guys think about this "less shipping costs" stuff?

>If a seller makes a mistake there should never be a second shipping charge to make it right.
If a snake I ship is dead on arrival, was not what was agreed to in the deal, has a defect I didn't catch or if I accidentally send the wrong sex, the buyer gets a replacement free of charge. That means FREE of charge. I would never charge an additional shipping charge for my mistake.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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It depends.

I have never shipped snakes, but I have shipped live chickens -- and chickens weigh a lot more than most snakes being shipped.

I would NOT refund shipping on a bird that arrived dead, as long as my packaging was up to the "Standard of Care". I can't control what happens to the bird in transit.

I would NOT refund shipping on a bird that the recipient simply didn't like after receiving it. I provide all the photos a prospective buyer wants to see before shipping. It's the buyer's choice to commit to that bird, or not.

I WOULD refund shipping if I shipped the wrong bird.

I *might* refund shipping if a bird became ill soon after shipping, depending on circumstances. I'd have to think about that.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa
0.3 Honduran milk snakes
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

>>It depends.
>>
>>I have never shipped snakes, but I have shipped live chickens -- and chickens weigh a lot more than most snakes being shipped.
>>
>>I would NOT refund shipping on a bird that arrived dead, as long as my packaging was up to the "Standard of Care". I can't control what happens to the bird in transit.
>>
>>I would NOT refund shipping on a bird that the recipient simply didn't like after receiving it. I provide all the photos a prospective buyer wants to see before shipping. It's the buyer's choice to commit to that bird, or not.
>>
>>I WOULD refund shipping if I shipped the wrong bird.
>>
>>I *might* refund shipping if a bird became ill soon after shipping, depending on circumstances. I'd have to think about that.
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>>

do you ship over night? "soon after shipping" would tell me, no.
I'm not sure about a chicken but it's not like a snake will get sick over night.
It is the shipper/seller's job to make sure packaging is sufficient to provide minimum environmental impact on the snake. There is no illness that can hit a healthy snake over night.
I shipped a snake in weather that was too cold and over-compensated with too many heat packs. basically killed the snake.
Even though the snake arrived 5 hours late, partialy due to going through the buyer's shipper instead of my own, and even though I told him ahead of time I wouldn't refund shipping if something happened because of that choice, I refunded the price of the snake and shipping anyway. I learned several things from that transaction that in the long run made it worth the refund.

Never ship if you don't think the weather is safe
Use YOUR choice of shipper not the customer's. You are responsible so go with who YOU trust.
Take a loss and do what's right it can only help in future dealings.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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>>do you ship over night? "soon after shipping" would tell me, no.

Yes, of course shipping is overnight. Unfortunately, they don't always ARRIVE overnight -- but overnight is the intent.

>>I'm not sure about a chicken but it's not like a snake will get sick over night.

Well heck, I didn't mean it would get sick in the shipping box. I meant within a few days after arrival at the new farm.

>>Even though the snake arrived 5 hours late, partialy due to going through the buyer's shipper instead of my own, and even though I told him ahead of time I wouldn't refund shipping if something happened because of that choice, I refunded the price of the snake and shipping anyway.

I wouldn't have.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa
0.3 Honduran milk snakes
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

>>>>do you ship over night? "soon after shipping" would tell me, no.
>>
>>Yes, of course shipping is overnight. Unfortunately, they don't always ARRIVE overnight -- but overnight is the intent.

I would consider it my responsibility if a package I shipped didn't arrive overnight.
It definitely isn't the buyer's fault.
All they did was send money and ask for a snake.
I guarantee live arrival. If the shipment is delayed and a snake dies in transit, my loss, not their fault.

>>
>>>>I'm not sure about a chicken but it's not like a snake will get sick over night.
>>
>>Well heck, I didn't mean it would get sick in the shipping box. I meant within a few days after arrival at the new farm.

It's hard for a snake to get sick and die within a couple of days. Even with poor husbandry it would be tough. Not impossible but tough. There are different scenerioes and different problems that can occour but if there is even the slightest possibility that the mistake was mine, I have no choice but to make it right.
You always have to be carefull with people trying to take advantage so if anything happens a week or more after the snake arrives photo proof and deeper investigation are in order.

>>
>>>>Even though the snake arrived 5 hours late, partialy due to going through the buyer's shipper instead of my own, and even though I told him ahead of time I wouldn't refund shipping if something happened because of that choice, I refunded the price of the snake and shipping anyway.
>>
>>I wouldn't have.
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A lot of people wouldn't
problem is...it only takes one person with something bad to say, now, to overshadow everything good people have said before.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

>>I would consider it my responsibility if a package I shipped didn't arrive overnight.

I certainly wouldn't.

Unfortunately, people who ship birds don't have the same options that reptile shippers do. FedEx and UPS won't accept live birds, so we are stuck with the USPS. I've known of birds shipped "overnight" that have actually taken THREE days to reach their destination. There's nothing the seller can do about it -- and USPS won't insure live shipments, either.

>>It's hard for a snake to get sick and die within a couple of days.

Unfortunately, not for a bird -- especially one that has been stressed through shipping. But, to complicate matters further, there are also often contagious diseases at the new farm -- so it's hard to tell whether a bird that becomes sick after shipping brought the illness from the old place, or caught it at the new place. That's why I said I might reimburse for a sick bird IF it became ill soon after shipping.

>>
>>A lot of people wouldn't

>>problem is...it only takes one person with something bad to say, now, to overshadow everything good people have said before.

Yup, and that can be a BIG problem. Unfortunately, though, there are always going to be people who say bad things no matter WHAT you do -- so I try to be fair and honest, but I won't be walked on just to avoid a disgruntled customer, either.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa
0.3 Honduran milk snakes
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

The exact thing happened to me last year. A buyer wanted his snake immediately and , against my judgement, I shipped when it was too cold. I overcompensated with an extra heat pack and the snake died. Upon arrival, he emailed me a photo, and I immediately refunded his full cost, shipping included. I, and I alone, agreed to ship when I felt uncomfortable doing so, so it was my responsibility to provide a live snake.
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Greg Jackson

>>The exact thing happened to me last year. A buyer wanted his snake immediately and , against my judgement, I shipped when it was too cold. I overcompensated with an extra heat pack and the snake died. Upon arrival, he emailed me a photo, and I immediately refunded his full cost, shipping included. I, and I alone, agreed to ship when I felt uncomfortable doing so, so it was my responsibility to provide a live snake.
>>-----
>>Greg Jackson

That's what happens when we go against our better judgement.
We both knew better and did it anyway. It cost us but we learned.
I don't feel we were used or walked over we just made a mistake, rectified our mistake, and learned from it.
For what it's worth, I think you did the right thing Greg.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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