Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hit this week as temps will fall into the low 40's to hi 30's for 5 days straight. This morning in Miami Cuban Anoles and smaller Iguanas were so cold they fell out of the tree's and were laying on the ground. Usually we have one or two nights a year it drops into the 40's. Even then it kills some Iguanas but it's been MANY DECADES since we've had 5-7 continual days of extremely cold weather like now. My guess is the population of Burmese Pythons is going to be decimated by this extended cold. The continual cold with a high of only 58-60 degree's and low temps around 40 is going to kill much of the population here. The ones that survive are very likely to develop severe RI infections later and die then. All in all it will be a bad year for the snakes. This one cold spell is likely to eradicate a high percentage of the population.....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

you got heaters all ready Thomas?......all them outdoor coops will be mighty cold too.....

...good luck.....!......cold here too....teens.....eeeew....and snow.....I hate snow....

.......yea...my first thought was....?...the wild burms and all will bury in and stay under junk and water which will stay warmer...but not for a week...and the air they breathe will fill their lungs too coldly ........nice.....

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......JY

I've got heated boxes for everything with power at every box. We just got that finished at a HUGE expense about a month ago just in case of weather like this. The problem is it's almost not warm enough in the day to let them out...We'll see...The problem with the wild stuff is not so much the temps but that it's going to last so long. That's what kills them...the duration of the cold....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom now would be the time that the hunting groups should go out and collect all the ones that they can find dead/frozen. This could be some more of the actual proof of the science we need to fight this battle. I wish I could volunteer to go do it but since the move to south carolina, job/rat hunting and buidling a huge dog kennel has taken up most of my time that a trip to south florida isn't possible at this time. Also we are now home owners and not giving away 1k a month on rent anymore, man that feels nice. I will post pics up as soon as the yard is in acceptable condition. Now I just need to find out what torts will tolerate this cold so I can get some outside pens up in my 2 acre yard.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

problem is they are so "thick" in the glades we can't find any live one or dead ones! Lol, there are dozens of snake hunters that go out nightly, and few have been found in comparison with other snakes period. They simply dont have the numbers they say they do.
A bunch will be frozen. If not, then when it does warm enough for them to move to get warm in the sun, the roads will have some dead ones , thats if the theory of tens of thousands are out there.

I can just see the headlines as hundreds of dying pythons start slithering onto the roads. You know they are going to spin it into something entirely different (IE Giant child eating Pythons leave the glades and head toward the cities Senator Nelson calls in the the National Guard to combat the deadly beasts)
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Tosha
JET Pythons
The Blog
nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

Hey Josh,

You've got the right idea but we have to remember we aren't dealing with logical people. Once they have something in their minds...the Everglades could be drained of it's water and all of the vegetation could be wiped out leaving a desert like area...and if there were no burms found at all they would still say there were 150,000 there. It's like brain washing...they figure if they say it enough everyone will believe it even though they know it's not true.
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

I know what you mean, but I will say this. Having the knowledge that I do have based on past experience and accepted science, it is way too cold up here in south carolina for any burmese to ever live through a winter here, lol. My god it's freaking cold. I forgot how cold it gets. The local rodent supplier I found even has had problems keeping his rats alive over the last couple weeks due to them freezing to death (now that's warm blooded animals dying from the cold, I wonder how a tropical reptile will fare). The one thing I'm looking forward to seeing is the results of Dr. Gibbons study at the Savannah River Ecology lab. In fact I may contact his office to see how they are tolerating this cold snap.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

cool...I mean warm.....I was thinking you were ahead of it...you didn't yell about it coming....thought was to cover/wrap all the cages/buildings you have actually...with plastic and have heat in each......just my quick thought from the pics I've seen of your yard.....

yea...like I mentioned...the wild stuff could just burrow under for a day or three...but a week will make them actually breathe cold air and both lungs will fill with fluids/cold.....

./...Good luck.....going to be warm here tomorrow....over freezing...!,....LOL....I actually shut the basement window over the snakes....got too cold for me in the basement....

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......JY

While I hate to say it...good.
Perhaps this will put to rest the minds of some of the "scientists" pressing against us.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

A few weeks ago I was searching online about freezes in the Glades. I wasn't sure which weather stations where representative but it looks some freezing temps within the last 20 – 30 years most places. Maybe due for them again.

If the duration and maybe a good cold night or two gets them all everyone be on double lookout for anyone gathering a new supply. With research and lobby money at stake the ban cause might not be willing to let the burms go. If it looks like the weather helped us (sorry citrus guys) and a convenient survivor is found right after dig out all the old pictures you can to try to ID it.

They might have to go back and rethink their study a little bit, and re-evaluatte how much of the US has suitable year round living conditions for burms...........Nah that would be too scientific.
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Tri State Pythons

Excellent post Tom & fellow herpers!
(just printed it all out and will send it with my letters to my senators Harry Reid & John Ensign)

I urge anyone else to do the same...

Rich Macias
Las Vegas, NV

You should stick a thermometer outside and take a picture and send it to all the authors of the USGS papers.

ARE YOU KIDDING? We don't go outside in this weather...LOL...There's going to be a LOT of Python popsicles...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

do you even own long pants Tom?....

you probably have long sleeved shirts, for mosquito prevention rather than warmth...LOL....maybe wind control......

.....you'd love the freezing temps....just go out till your breathe freezes all over your beard and mustache....wait....that is one of the reasons I quit hunting......nevermind....

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......JY

I HAVE ONE PAIR OF LONG PANTS AND INTEND ON WEARING THEM TOMORROW...LOL...When my beard freezes I'm headed to Thailand....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Hey Tom,

Rumor has it that they have already grown fur that will protect them through these harsh back to back 30 degree fronts. I have heard from someone who knows someone in Water Management that one was spotted already with long 'Snuffleupagus' type hair covering it's body. Apparently it chased an employee back to his car before the Burmese whisperer could arrive on the scene to track and kill the 30+ foot tourist killer.

You know a lot these animals won't make it through the fronts, I know they won't make it through the fronts...but what you want to bet that after the fronts pass through...one that's in perfect condition will mysteriously show up in a populated area and it will all be captured on videotape by a distraught person who has no affiliation what-so-ever with an animal rights group...scouts honor.

Here's the beastie we should be looking out for...

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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

I agree with you in that the cold snap will affect nonindigenous snake species, yet using terms like decimation in a time when this is a politically charged subject is more counterproductive than it's worth. Let's collect hard data in the terms of dead specimens before we assume the weather in one or two weeks will solve any problems. It is not unlikely that the tempature will simply force a deep state of torpor that these snakes will easily weather.

If they can't find them when they are alive what makes you think they will find them when they are dead. They will be eaten by birds, alligators, and all of the other scavenging wildlife that's in the Glades.
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Some people are finding snakes. It's like tracking any other wildlife, there are many that try, and a few with the true skills. If we have people successfully tracking mountain lions then finding large breeding aged pythons is possible.

Furthermore, if your right, and we can't collect data, than that doesn't justify the rhetoric of saying the weather will decimate populations.

Personally...I don't think there's that many there in the first place...hence not finding any numbers of them. What is there will certainly not fare well in the next week though.
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

I agree with you, my main concern is that our community is not being taken seriously by legislators because of some peoples' use of sensational language and claims. Our main platform is that the USGS study is based on junk science, when we have folks sending their senators anectdotal opinions, such as in this thread, it makes us look like unprepared, uninformed morons...... A senator should not be receiving a letter with a copy a paste of an opinion from a well known herp breeder. This is unprofessional and ineffective. Although Mr. Crutchfield's opinions and experience do mean much to our community, they should not be used as "evidence" and be included in letters to legislators. Some authorities feel Mr. Crutchfield himself played a large role in the introduction of non-native species to Florida. Not to say he is alone in responsibility, yet some of his captive offspring undoubtedly wound up in irresponsible hands. No fault of his......

Our community is being taken seriously be legislators...it's just that they really don't care about science and facts...they care about whats ion their own best interest. That's why cigarettes and guns are legal...
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Are you kidding me? Until the last year I've never even lived close to the ENP. I also have never advocated that my statements be used as scientific facts of any type. This is my personal opinion and I stand by it. You should rethink the the issue of me being responsible as for over 15 years I have imported very little and NO Pythons at all. In actuality it's fairly common knowledge looking at the figures from TRAFFIC and who had business in this area about the time of Hurricane Andrew. I'm not going to call names but at least I've done extensive research on ALL the facts. We all live in a glass house and we shouldn't throw stones....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Reread the post if you have to, no one is blaming Tom Crutchfield ( at least I'm not), or suggesting that we count dead snakes. More examples of people taking things out of context and sensationalizing their views. Good luck

Again, reread the post and take it for what it says, not what you make of it. It does not suggest you are responsible for python introductions, it suggests that there may be some responsibility for "nonindigenous" species introductions. That includes anything exotic....right? Furthermore, Some of the originally introduced pythons could have been bred in California for all we know, your proximity to ENP is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that many of these introductions have happened a long time ago............

I did just read it again and you're correct. I'm sorry if I upset you as it wasn't intended. It was my fault as I had folks here and was multi-tasking and read it wrong. The only thing I would say is that although I'm sure that Pythons have been deliberately released in the ENP I don't think the feral population is the result of the releases. The evidence doesn't support that either. For one there was NO self-sustaining population that we know of until post Hurricane Andrew. Second the DNA according to my sources show that they ALL seem to be closely related. If they were the result of random releases this wouldn't be the case and likely there would have been a population before the year 2000. Again sorry for my misunderstanding of your post. Also all of us, including myself, need to be a lot more responsible than in the past. Snakes always are newsworthy and we should attempt not to become newsworthy except in a positive way...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Additionally I haven't kept or bred any species of lg Pythons since the albino Burmese in the early 80's. There was one period of 2 years I bred Burmese in about 1990-1992 and that's it. It never was my thing although I fully support folks that do breed them....The closest thing I came was by breeding PURE Python m. molurus up until 1997...Haven't seen any of those yet but I'd like to...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

"A senator should not be receiving a letter with a copy a paste of an opinion from a well known herp breeder. This is unprofessional and ineffective."

What should a senator be receiving? Why write all the letters, make all the phone calls, emails, and appointments if not to give opinions from well known and non-known herpers? Isn't that the reason why we are trying to reach out to make our opinions aka VOICES HEARD!?

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything.....my passion for the herps got the best of me in this post.

I sent my letters and a copy of what I believe was a very reasonable opinion from a well known herper...Sorry, to all those who disagree with me....I'm done, you won't here from me again.

Rich Macias
Las Vegas, NV

Like you said, anything we send them is strictly someone's opinion. That is all they are basing their argument on also is someone's opinion. I think Tom's statement is every bit as scientific as the evidence they are using, if not more. Mike

I live here and am a seasoned field herper and to find a feral Burmese by any method other than road hunting is an exercize in futility. ALL THE HUNTERS COLLECTIVELY HAVE FOUND LESS THAN 50 SNAKES AND THAT INCLUDES ROAD HUNTING IN SEVERAL MONTHS WORTH OF HUNTING. I have only found one by walking along a canal bank. While I think their reasonbly common they are NOT as common as they claim they are. To find wild dead ones hunkered down to survive the cold would be pure luck no matter how skilled a collector is.
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I'm the one that said the population will take a major hit and it will. This is based on almost 40 years of experience with both captive and wild snakes. I also am a 6th generation Floridian and am familiar to say the least with Florida weather patterns. The way it can be measured will be the amount of snakes found this next year. Counts are annually made in an area called "Frog Pond" and I'm guessing there will be a paucity of Pythons on this years count. This is my opinion and I stand by it. Time will tell but I don't know how you could access the real numbers of snakes killed. Then again I don't know how you could arrive at a real number of live ones here in the first place. The Everglades Wilderness Area is about 4,000 square miles with few roads and most areas inaccessable to people. Good luck on counting anything accurately...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Here is a Jan 9th article. Would love to find something from Jan 10th as I think last night was the coldest. Of course as pointed out the length of cold might be the clincher.
Miami Herald