Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are there any major differences between an Abbott Okeetee and the Love Okeetee? If so which do you prefer and why? I am looking to get one and was wondering which line I should get.
Thanks.

-ASH

Flip a coin. You can't go wrong with either one, they're both beautiful. However, if you're into thick black borders then go with the Abbott's.

Ditto what ChrisErica said. They're both quality lines with stunning animals. Abbott's have the super thick black borders.

>>Ditto what ChrisErica said. They're both quality lines with stunning animals. Abbott's have the super thick black borders.

you could e-mail Kathy and Lee to find out what they have available and work from there.
I think a lot of lines, including Kathy's, probably started with Abbott stock anyway. Or at least have some Abbott stock in there somewhere.
There is a third choice and one just as good.
Look on this forum for Jeff Cochran...Jeff has some beautiful okeetees.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Don at South Mountain has some of Chip Bridges and his own F1 stock and has developed some really nice looking okeetees. Photo by SMR).

My okeetees came from this stock but have thicker borders. Like the other poster said, depends on if you want the thick borders or the traditional look?

dc

Wow! Thanks Jimmy! My okeetees are from Abbott stock but,this year's babies will include some w/c blood from John Scott's line. Take care! Jeff

Sorry about that! That should have said Scott John's line! Jeff

Do you have any pics of the new guys Jeff?

"Look on this forum for Jeff Cochran...Jeff has some beautiful okeetees."

Yep, in my opinion Jeff's got the best ones.

I got a couple of Okeetees and a Reverse Okeetee and from him a couple of years ago.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him again.

Tim

Yes, they all certainly have some fantastic looking bloodlines, but I also have to agree with you on the fact that Jeff has some OUTSTANDING looking stock! Some of the photo's he has posted in the past were absolutely MIND-BLOWING!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Highly agreed Captain Milk!!!
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Genesis 1:1

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Here's a female from Jeff in '06....

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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

Thanks Brad! Is that by any chance the one that produced the sunkists? Take care! Jeff

np
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

According to my knowledge, the Abbott line has been comprised somewhat of the Love line.

In other words, they are the same basic line.

Beautiful snakes! You can't go wrong getting one!
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Genesis 1:1

They are not basically the same line. The story is the Lee did use a Love animal but bred it to a wc animal and thus started his line of okeetees. So, I wouldn't say they were basically the same line.

dc

back in the mid and late '80s. Here is the history of okeetees, to the best of my memory - hope it helps!

I mostly used a number of babies bought from field collectors who caught them in Jasper Co, SC. Not many people were breeding them in captivity back then, certainly not for enough generations to have changed them much from the typical w.c., which tended to be very dark, often with longitudinal black striping (similar to yellow rat snake stripes).

So I got the best ones I could find, and started keeping back the best progeny each year. After several generations, the average babies started looking A LOT better than the average w.c. okeetees.

When Lee decided to get into okeetees (he was widely known for his gorgeous, locality, gray banded kings back in those days), he came down early in the season one or two years, I think in the early or mid '90s, and bought a number of pairs of my best baby okeetees to get started. Then he also bought some from a couple other breeders, and added some w.c. blood into them as well. Then he started selectively breeding for beautiful color and pattern, and has done a great job of it.

In the early 2000s, I got a couple of pairs back from him that were half my bloodline, and half unrelated lines, so I could partially outcross my own lines without "diluting" them with "inferior" w.c. lines.

So our lines have a lot of common ancestors, but are not completely the same. Sometimes I joke about calling some of my corns "Abbove" line corns, since those particular babies come from both lines.

I have since cut way back on all of my corns (I don't have any helpers anymore - just me), so don't produce anywhere near what I used to.

The first sunkisseds came from my line of okeetees from before I ever got any back from Lee in the 2000s. As far as I know, sunkissed came out of lines that originated from w.c. Jasper Co. stock I bought back in the '80s. But of course, the sunkissed didn't pop up from those lines until the '90s, when I happened to unknowingly cross the hets together. The rest is history!

I actually bought a pair of 08 Okees last year and the male was labled an "Abbove" LOL!! The breeder is apparently crossing stock he got from you and Lee and naming the mix accordingly LOL. The female was labled "Love" and was apparently produced from your line only. Regardless, both are pretty snakes and have nice differences though both still have what I consider classic Okeetee traits.

>>back in the mid and late '80s. Here is the history of okeetees, to the best of my memory - hope it helps!
>>
>>I mostly used a number of babies bought from field collectors who caught them in Jasper Co, SC. Not many people were breeding them in captivity back then, certainly not for enough generations to have changed them much from the typical w.c., which tended to be very dark, often with longitudinal black striping (similar to yellow rat snake stripes).
>>
>>So I got the best ones I could find, and started keeping back the best progeny each year. After several generations, the average babies started looking A LOT better than the average w.c. okeetees.
>>
>>When Lee decided to get into okeetees (he was widely known for his gorgeous, locality, gray banded kings back in those days), he came down early in the season one or two years, I think in the early or mid '90s, and bought a number of pairs of my best baby okeetees to get started. Then he also bought some from a couple other breeders, and added some w.c. blood into them as well. Then he started selectively breeding for beautiful color and pattern, and has done a great job of it.
>>
>>In the early 2000s, I got a couple of pairs back from him that were half my bloodline, and half unrelated lines, so I could partially outcross my own lines without "diluting" them with "inferior" w.c. lines.
>>
>>So our lines have a lot of common ancestors, but are not completely the same. Sometimes I joke about calling some of my corns "Abbove" line corns, since those particular babies come from both lines.
>>
>>I have since cut way back on all of my corns (I don't have any helpers anymore - just me), so don't produce anywhere near what I used to.
>>
>>The first sunkisseds came from my line of okeetees from before I ever got any back from Lee in the 2000s. As far as I know, sunkissed came out of lines that originated from w.c. Jasper Co. stock I bought back in the '80s. But of course, the sunkissed didn't pop up from those lines until the '90s, when I happened to unknowingly cross the hets together. The rest is history!

thanks for refreshing our memories, Kathy.
always nice to get the facts.
this guy has some "Love" line in him. His mother came from you and his dad came from Don.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Here is a Love line guy. Smokin hot!!!
He throws some BRIGHT babies. Thanks Kathy.

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Randy Whittington

One of his kids at 3 years old. Sorry the picture has a little too much flash.

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Randy Whittington