Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey I was wondering if anyone has had their BRB, or anyother breed of snake regurgitate a meal after a week if digesting???

My initial thoughts are that it is due to the rat being too large. It certainly was the biggest rat i've fed her. She's almost 3 yrs old and approx 5 ft long. As slender as a small>medium rat.
Should I be worried??? She's been pretty finiky about eating since fall came around. Been going over 3 weeks til she gets interested in feeding. Til this fall, things were running like clockwork.
The temp of tank hovers around 90. 55 gallon long tank.

Cliff covered most points well, just a little more to add..

Cage temps should be measured at ground level where snake is.

NOT a screen topped aquarium!!!!!

I'd wait even longer for an adult, point being to skip one meal entirely so at a two or three week feeding interval, stretch that out to four or 6 weeks. Then feed a VERY small prey item, half the size of what she ate PRIOR to this larger rat you fed her. Then feed again at three or five weeks again with a half sized prey item. You need to work back to regular sized, regular interval feeding slowly. If you rush it too much she may regurge again and then you're back to square one.

By digesting it for a week much of her intestinal bacteria was lost with the regurge so she is less capable of digesting right now. You need to build her intestinal bacteria colony back up.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Well its too late for any advice now. Went to sleep around 6pm, she was half way going b her hide. When I woke up at 9, she was curiously in the same position :/
Half in hide, half over water bowl. Went to check on her and she was STIFF AS CARDBOARD! :O
Out of having various snakes since 95, this was the first that done up and died on me
Now debating on if I should even bother getting another. Balls turn into finickt eaters, Burmese get too big, redtails too. Brazilians are too much upkeep with the humidity (I have a 55 gallon glass tank). Thought of going to fish :/ LoL

What's a good snake that'll stay around 6ft, and can live satisfactory in the tank I have???

Sorry for your loss.

I think the problem is not so much the snake (BP or BRB) but the enclosure you're trying to keep it in. Both species do fine when CBB and kept in an enclosure more suited to the species. I have dozens of BRB's, counting all the babies I have over 250 BRB's I'm caring for right now. In proper caging they are all doing just fine. I don't do anything special at all except maybe spritzing when in shed but mostly nothing other than feed and clean cages.

For a glass tank, easiest to keep would be a species that is used to typical humidity/temps in North America. A kingsnake or Cornsnake would likely do well.

Did your tank have a screen top?
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

i agree with Dave i would have recommended a corn, but a king would work to or even a milk...

how about a gecko have you ever considered that, i hear they are pretty easy to care for do do just fine in glass tanks
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Nah, I can't do the colurbrids (Milks, corn, rat snakes) Always thought those were kinda corny. This snake was the only problem I had in a glass tank (Petland). My albino and green Burmese pys were monsters. Never had a feeding, health problem or otherwise. Only had a problem with the Ball. He just stopped eating one day out the blue.

I need a good breed that would work in a glass tank, or I may just have to change my WHOLE set up period.
Sand Boa?
Dumeril Boa?
Blood Python?
Any ideas???

I seem to remember sand boa cages being glass aquariums with a under tank heater but don't quote me. Best bet would be to ask the folks on that forum as they will have direct first hand knowledge of care requirements.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

sand boas wouldn't need a tank that large.

To be honest glass tanks are a poor choice for most reptiles except those that require alot of water (ie semi aquatic or full aquatic turtles, amphibians etc.) Glass is a poor insulator and it is hard to keep humidity and heat balanced.

From all sounds of things, your BRB setup was way too hot and it overheated and died. Too much heat can quickly kill most reptiles, especially if they don't' have a cool place to retreat to. Though I don't have the large collections as other BRB keepers do, I have found it very easy to keep BRB's from babies to adults for years in large plastic clear storage bins. Easy to clean, easy to maintain a consistent heat and humidity level.

Glass tanks can be used for snakes but you just have to be aware of their limitations and weak points. An all screen lid allows for heat and moisture to escape quickly. Lamps dry out the air if you are using that for light or heat. Covering the screen with plexi glass or even saran wrap and using under tank heaters on only one third of the bottom of the tank (controlled with a thermostat) and taking regular measurements of the surface temperature above the heating pad and in the cool section will allow you to control the environment better. For humidity providing a large enough water dish for the snake to soak in and humid hides will ensure proper hydration.

As you indicated you had bad experiences with several species of snakes, I think it would be better to do more research on the species you have currently and ask questions in the appropriate forums for advice on your current setup and interactions with your snakes. Most experienced keepers of Burmese pythons and retics I have talked with or read about had no problems handling even problematic snakes and easily turned them from monsters into calm snakes, mostly because they had a deep understanding of the snake's habits and needs.

Ball pythons definitely are finicky eaters but can easily become regular eaters with the proper setup. They like to feel secure which means plenty of tight fitting hides and good temperatures.

I have been keeping ball pythons, corn snakes, rat snakes and Brazilian rainbow boas for some time, the corn snakes the longest. I researched each species before I bought them and I still research them to learn new techniques and improvements on old ones. Even my lizards I researched long before I bought them and still keep as up to date on new discoveries and techniques, always looking for the best way to keep my animals healthy.

You may find corn snakes passe and boring because nearly everyone has one but there is a good reason why they are still one of the most common pet snakes kept. They are easy to care for and very fault tolerant.

If you really want to use the tank you have for your next pet, you could look into bearded dragons. A 50 gallon breeder is about the same size as the minimal size recommended for an adult dragon. You will need to get light fixtures for a UVB bulb and heat lamp, plus accurate thermometers to measure both surface and air temps to ensure you have a proper hot spot for basking (95-120F, 105F is a good middle point to aim for, this is surface temp. For ambient in the basking end of the cage, you want low 90's F) Cool end should be 75-80F air temperature during the day and normal room temperature at night (65F-70F).

Bearded dragons do require more daily care than a snake, especially if bought as babies. Research more about them if you think you may like a lizard. All lizards require far more feedings than snakes and most often much more variety of food items than snakes.

I don't know alot about the care requirements of blood pythons but I do know they are not big eaters. Yes, they will eat anything and pretty much every time you offer food but they don't require weekly feedings, many in captivity are over weight due to too much feeding. Captive breed bloods are not as difficult to work with as wild caught, which can be very prone to striking and biting. The blood python forum certainly will have more care information available than I know off hand.

But being very girthy snakes, your glass tank may not have the width to ensure their comfort once full grown. It may very well be more feasible for you to sell that big glass tank and build or buy a tank designed more for snakes than fish. (often the height in fish tanks is wasted for snakes, unless you are getting a semi arboreal species).

There are also various rat snake species that reach the 6 foot mark or longer, like tiger rats, black rats and I think some of the Asian species. There are also gopher snakes and bull snakes which get fairly large. I think some pine snakes reach the 6 foot mark as well, but I am not sure. All these snakes do have their own husbandry requirements which will need to be researched as well.
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PHLdyPayne

When I said my Burmese were monsters, I meant that I never had a problem with them! I meant monsters in their appetite. My only problem was the Ball (stopped eating). And Now that I re-evaluate things, I think I may have over heated the BRB. She always stayed more so on the coolest side of tank, and often soaked in water bowl. The Temp I kept the tank at was based on all my research. SO many sites and care sheets i've read said they need temp upwards of 90 degrees and High Humidity. Come to find out, it should have been around 80. Aside from that issue, I dont think there was much else wrong with my set up. My Apt is pretty warm, so keepin temp constant wasn't too hard. Though a glass tank and screen top. I've kept it pretty moist in there. Jungle mIx was always damp (poured water in it and stirred), plus misting a few times daily.

Now about plastic containers for habitat, How is that for viewing purposes? I'm not looking for a typical plastic shelf type system. I like the astetics and ambiance of the tank. I'ld like it to be something viewable. I've looked at sites like Cagesbydesign.com, but their expensive.

Where are the caresheets that say these snakes need temperatures up into the 90s?

I dont recall. But i looked at numerous sites for almost a year before actually got teh baby BRB. But I must say that I raised it well starting out in a lil 10 gallon glass tank.

I think part of the problem is confusing air temperature and surface temperature. Having a surface temperature of up to 90F over the heating pad or under tank heater is fine for rainbows. However the air temp shouldn't be that high at all.

Air temperature is basically the temperature of the air itself which is almost always cooler than a surface temperature. Say if the radio announces the high for the day is 75F they are talking about air temperature. If that same day is sunny and you touch the surface of your car, you will find it very hot to the touch, even as much as 30F warmer than the air temperature. The best way to measure surface temperature is with a temp gun. The second best way is using a probe lain directly ontop of the surface and left there for about 15 mins then checking the temperature.

Brazilian Rainbow boas don't like high air temps but do need a warmer surface temp on one end of the cage to properly thermoregulate but they should have access to cooler temperatures so they can escape the heat if they become too warm. If your ambient or air temperature of the tank was 90F, the surface temperature in the hot end of the tank could very well have been over 100F, far too hot for the snake to use.

In regards to plastic setups, it is possible to get clear plastic cages which provide excellent viewing but ensure temperatures and humidity are easily controlled. If your home is very warm (above 75F) you probably don't need any heat source at all. Even a low watt bulb can quickly overheat a glass cage if the basic room temperature the cage is in is already at the comfort level for the snake.

You mentioned you have a friend who works in glass and acrylic. I am sure he can easily design a cage perfect for Rainbows or any other snake, using clear acrylic for the front for viewing and a solid acrylic or other material for the bottom, back and sides. The top can be fully solid as well, with vents either on the sides of the cage, or along the top, which can be opened or closed as needed to allow more heat to escape on warmer days. Side vents are better as they don't allow as much heat or humidity to escape.

The substrate shouldn't be too damp either, as it can encourage the growth of bacteria and mold which can cause other problems, such as scale rot or respiratory infections. Ideally you want the substrate to dry out completely between mistings.
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PHLdyPayne

Yeah it was a basic Petland Glass aquarium. Screen top and all. What and where do you reccommend that I get a better set-up. A friend of mines built his own. Either plexiglass or acrylic.

IMO thats your best bet.. pick the animal first, once you know what you want build you a set up for that species. once your all set up go ahead and get your animal!

this way you get the animal that you want, in stead of getting something else just because...

when i say "build you a set up" i dont men build it your self, what i mean is get a cage get it heated, get the heat controlled, lighting and venting... get it all up and running...

there are lots of options for caging in the classifieds, or you could build if you wanted to
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-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

There's your real problem, the cage you had it in is IMO totally wrong for the species. The screen top allows all the warm/humid air to rise uo and out of the cage being replaced with cooler drier house air. Vicious cycle that usually leads to the exact result you had. Probably also had a heat lamp on top? The other problem with a glass cage is that glass is a good conductor of heat, allowng much of the heat to escape out the sides.

All too often the pet stores will sell you what they have and honestly, they only have one or two basic styles in maybe a few sizes. Those are fine for colubrids but tropical and/or desert species are not well suited for those cages.

IMO the BEST comercial setup is one of the plastic type cages like a Boaphile 322D 3' x 2' x 18" with a RHP controlled by a decent proportional thermostat. All in all, probably around $400 total for one setup. No specific vents, only the gap around the door. No misting required, with a large surface area water dish and a damp moss hide box would be a perfect little setup.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I went to your site and checked out your set up. You're more suited for Breeding. I'm looking for aestetics, decor for the apt. To get an idea of my set up. I ave videos of my feedings and tank setup on Youtube under my name GHATTAKA, or (Snake feeding, Silence of the lambs, Baroness)

I looked at a few sites, and found this set up: http://www.reptilebasics.com/2x4-cage-12-high.html

Any ideas or aopinions on this?? They have stuff i've never used before. Heat strips in tank? (I've always used heating pads stuck to underside of tank) And they have Thermometers I feel I really should use. I was looking at the 2X4 design. 8sqft floor space. No wasted height as in my glass tank. Double doors on front. The heating and lighting is built in and come assembled.

There is a Reptile Expo coming up on the 24th. So if I can order and set up in time, I can get a new BRB then.

. When keeping Rainbow Boas it is far better to have NO heat than to have a heater with no thermostatic control of it. Many people kill these snakes by keeping them hot like they keep their other boids. If you have a room that is in the high 60s up to the mid 70s no heat on the cage will work with these snakes. If the room temperature is in the mid 60s or less for much of the time a very small weak heater under just a corner of the cage could work. The mistake many people make is heating the entire cage into the 80s or higher. IDEALLY a cage should be long enough to provide a thermostatically controlled temperature gradient from the low 70s at one end to the low 80s at the other and the snake can then select the temperature that best suits it's needs. However, these snakes are very secretive. In a cage that only has one place to hide they will spend much of their time there even if it is far too cold or hot. Rainbow Boas like water. Most of them will spend at least some time soaking in a large water bwol. If the water Bowl is the only place to hide or the only place in the cage at the right temperature they will spend too much time in it.
. Aethetics? To me a typical 10 to 20 gallon aquarium looks best with water and fish in it. A very large and/or tall tank with plants is a nice affordable aesthetic choice for showing snakes. Though they do pose problems in controlling temperature and humidity. If using any sort of tank for Rainbow Boas you must cover most or even all of the screen to prevent the escape of humidity. Many of us live in humid climates but during heating and air conditioning season the air in our houses is EXTEMELY dry. A cage with very much ventilation will dry out and kill high humidity snakes in a hurry.
. That cage from Reptile Basics looks good so long as it does not have too many ventilation screens. If there is any sort of air gap around the doors that will probably provide enough ventilation.
. Going to an "Expo"? Be careful! Some of the people who act like expert breeders at shows are really just junk animal dealers.
. A Carpet Python might be what you are looking for. I used to breed Jungle Carpet Pythons and I kept some of them in tall tanks with screen tops and they did well in them. They look nice in tall tanks with plants. They can tolerate much more humidity variation than Rainbow Boas can. They do need cage furnishings to climb on. Many little Carpet Pythons eat best when they can strike down to grab their prey. Do LOTS of research before getting any snake. All snakes have very specific husbandry requirements. The best snake keepers are the ones who do the research and then pay close attention to the very small details.

Orion is in a 30L locking repti tank for now until he grows out of it. I know screen top glass aquariums/vivs are taboo with the pro breeders.. Dave don't shoot me =), but I managed to retro fit the top of mine with two pieces of plexi (found pre-cut at Home Depot) The two pieces overlap and slide on top to allow for seasonal adjustments in my apt. I keep a large water bowl centered in the tank, 1/2 on, 1/2 off the heating pad. The evaporation from his "hottub" keeps humidity levels pretty constant around 95%. The only downside is I noticed he doesn't soak much; I've tried moving the to the cooler side to see if it's a temp issue or just personal preference. He doesn't seem to care either way.