Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These things have been a passion of mine for over 12 years.....Their popularity has died and returned a few times within the last two decades.....
I am sure they will soon be popular again with crossing of the many phases/morphs/looks......
With a lot of help from Shannon Brown and others we should see some NEVER seen before Mex Mex in the near future.....
Starting this year....Fingers crossed.....

Here are some pics of the present Mex Mex in my collection (along with some of Shannon Brown's breeder loan snakes) and some Mex Mex from the past that started my facination with these cool, hardy snakes......

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I have this eversion for delicate captives that require to much attantion or work.

I used to keep MEX Mex and they were one of the hardiest captive snakes I ever owned.

It's been about 12 years now, since i sold my adults, and I think they deserve another look. They have the combination of being tough as nails and new colors morphs that can be the next big thing.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

>>I have this eversion for delicate captives that require to much attantion or work.
>>
>>I used to keep MEX Mex and they were one of the hardiest captive snakes I ever owned.
>>
>>It's been about 12 years now, since i sold my adults, and I think they deserve another look. They have the combination of being tough as nails and new colors morphs that can be the next big thing.

They are some of the hardiest kingsnakes there are.....Up there with getula, but don't get as big.....

With correct husbandry (choices and all)...They can grow fast and thrive.....

I have some 18 month olds that are over 30 inches and some that hatched in 2009 (6 month olds) that are close to 20 inches already......

Some hatchling Mex Mex are picky feeders but I've had Splendida, Holbrooki & Cornsnakes that were harder to get to eat than these Mexicana.....
And I think they will surely have a great "comeback"....I don't know about them being the next big thing as they have always been AWESOME in my book.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I have never owned any, but from the sounds of it they are right up my overfeeding alley!!! LOL.

One of the most under appreciated and awesome snakes in the Mexicana group. They may not be a bright in color as some of the Thayeri or Alterna but they are awesome animals to keep and work with. You have some really nice ones there John.

That dark animal you have reminds me of a group that was collected back in the late 70's from a hillside right out of San Luis that Joe Lazlo had for a while.

Good Luck with them,

Cherryville Farms

Thanks John....
The black Mex Mex are some of my favorites too....
BTW....That one you posted is a female I purchased from you back in 2004.....Cool......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Here's a pic of that female I got from you and another from the same "line" I got from Mike Price back then......

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

............so then that would conflict with wanting multifasciata..................no?
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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

............so then that would conflict with wanting multifasciata..................no?

You know Jerry i do keep lots of other snakes and reptiles besides Florida kings. I just don't mention it much.

Zonata in general are not the easiest of captives and only for more experienced keepers.. they go off feed in early Sept and unless you feed them regulary that may not even make it through Fall and winter. But you already know this.

I don't have the time to get zonata to feed before a sale and then have half of them go through an entire winter before taking their first meal. If i did i would have been breeding lots of zonata. So cheers to you for all your hard work!

So I pick one pair of z's and that would be multifasciata because I think they are the prettiest and hardest to field collect of the z's. I am not interested in selling offspring. Just want to keep what i produce and give some away to friends who i know can handle their care. It is unerving to have snakes go off feed as early as august. I had this with rubber boas and it drove me nuts.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

yeah, going off-feed early (end of summer/early fall) can be nerve-racking for sure. That time frame to feed generously without over-doing it is essential...so consistency and diligence helps beginning in April all throughout that short window of time 'til August/September arrives. Prior to obtaining a wine cooler I honestly was white-knuckled until December came which is when I typically begin the brumation cycle and just keep the kids as cool as possible until then. So it really is un-nerving with most z's......true.

Wish I had the time to actually keep more myself -- outside of what I work with is just a single killer panther cham and a couple leopard geckos that my daughter tinkers with every year as a side gig to sell at a few of the shows I attend. I'm sure down where you are there's greater ease of having outdoor pens/enclosures and better year-round temps. My wife and I contemplated on relocating to Florida last year but plans fell through -- I had the outdoor chameleon pen all planned out too. Could be worse though -- could have a wife that hates herps, so I count my blessings every day.
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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

That would be way cool if you ever did move down here to Florida J-Dawg!, then going to Daytona wouldn't be a chore either..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

WOW, this forum is getting hot.......

Yeah Doug, I'd love to live in Florida and make friends with all the nice Cuban ladies, tackle some gators, and pay a visit to the Miami Serpentarium before Bill kicks da bucket. I'm sure you have pics of him, so throw 'em up if you do.
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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Yeah Jerry, here a a few pics of my boy Bill Haast from when I visited him back around 1997-1998. The ol' boy is really getting up in years, and it will DEFINITELY be a sad day for the herpetological industry when he does eventually pass away. Bill was born in 1910, so that now makes him 99-100 years old!.

He is the TRUE "pioneer" of herpetology!, and always will be in my eyes. I will always be glad to have known this true icon of a man!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Wow, I knew you'd have something up your sleeve...as always, the Mongster comes through.

Well here's a pic of my boy Doug Mong at a post symposium soiree celebrating the groundbreaking of the RBCIHM (Rehabilitational Boot Camp for Intentional Hybrid Makers). LOL..!!!

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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

HAHAHAHAHAHA. LMFAO!!!

it's how i roll Joe......it's how I roll.....(LOL).

St. Helena mountain kings (zonata zonata, Napa County)

Man I can't wait for these babies. The pair is currently resting at approximately 48F and I'm counting the days. This ssp is stout (28 inches) and thick-bodied, bright and crisp in color, and feed all the way 'til brumation time (at least mine do anyway..)

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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Very nice Jerry. Stout aren't they!!

YESSSIR......"hung like a can o' tuna".......
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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Killer Zonata Jerry! I'm getting zonata hunting fever...

Scott

(insert the appropriate voice...)

Thank you Scottttttttttt.........I wouldnt want anyone to steal my..........Zonata MOJO..........................maybe you can be an EVIL snake breeder?.......hmmmmm???

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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

You apparently got tagged in the face by one too many "hots" bro..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I thought I already was? Your Snakes, give them to me "NOW"!

You MORON!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

From YOU that's a compliment. I will rock that photo forever, LOL. But sparingly so......

And here's a family photo of someone near and dear to us both.....LMAO............it fits doesnt it...........

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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

And dig the woman's lib pink carbine!..LOL!

Wouldn't want to pi$$ her off!..HAHAHAA!

wonder if the bullets are pink too!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I wonder if she would go out hunting with me.......LOL!

Scott

Only if you have a matching blue "boy" gun!..LOL!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Oh man, I only have a green one. just my luck! LOL!

Scott

Thanks for posting those Doug, really great to have. I'm copying and saving those.

Sure bro, my pleasure!. He will always be a big part of our herping history, and I know you used to see him way back too and sold him "hot" snakes here and there.

His Serpentarium in Miami was like a freakin "Disney World" to me when I was a kid..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Very cool Doug. He is indeed an icon!

Scott

Yeah Scott, he is definitely THE MAN!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That he is Doug and always will be!

Scott

Oh man. Nice photos Doug. I have always admired him as well. There is something to the "venom injecions" huh? Last time I saw him on tv he was like 88 or something and was getting around better than most 50 year olds!!

Yeah Joe, he was always doing real great for his age, but lately I think things are starting to catch up with him a bit more. As of a while back, he no longer has the hand dexterity to handle the "hots" like he could before, so he has someone else do it for him now. His hands are pretty badly screwed up from all those tags he's taken over the years.....ARRGH!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Full Racks!

Yeah, those are made by bophile plastics I believe. I don't mind, they hold their shape much longer that way!!

Reminds me of two ridiculous coconut halves tacked to a piece of plywood..LOL!

I gotta go with naturals myself!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I am a leg man myself but I do love to play "motorboat"! LOL. "Did ya play motorboat"---"where is she, is she still in the house".----Wedding Crashers. Oh how I love that movie.

Coconut milk is great, just don't get it from the green ones. LOL!

Scott

....back in the day... I took Bill a few cottons along w/ some other animals and when asked, he told me that they were what he least wanted to be bitten by. All the cobras and kraits, etc. and the cottons held his attention.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Hey Mark, did he give a reason for that? I wonder if their bite is just that much more painful? As we know, he has been bitten by them all.

A big Eastern Diamondback almost did him in some years ago, as his system is much more used to dealing with elapid bites, and not crotalids. It screwed his hand up but GOOD!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Is that why he is missing parts of his fingers/thumb?

Scott

I'm pretty sure that was the main contributer for that, but all the other bites he's taken over the years also disfigured his hands and fingers as well. They looked like "wicked witch" hands, all pointed with deformed nails and everything..LOL!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Hahahahaa! I shouldn't laugh, but that picture and what you said is too funny. He's still the man, just hope his hands and fingers are not green?

Scott

"just hope his hands and fingers are not green"

I'm thinking they just might have been green at some point too, as in "gangrene" from necrosis!

Not funny though like you said, but the comments and pics are..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I'm still laughing at the pic and comments, but have to give him credit. To go through what he has would break down and make most men cry. He is da man!

Scott

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

...was when the kid fell into the croc pit and was killed...
Pretty much ended the Serpentarium...
although, if I remember, the family was not as vengeful as they might be in these dyas w/ all the lawsuits,etc.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Yeah man!!!, I remember that well!. The guy was holding his son on the retaining wall, and he fell in. That HUGE crock named "stumpy"(because he bit his own tail off) quickly grabbed him and was drowned. And as you will recall, Bill himself shot the crock as he knew for a fact it would be done anyway. What a sad thing to have happen.

Man, that crocodile was an absolute MONSTER!, even with just a short stump of a tail, it still measured something like 14 feet or so as I recall.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

yeah that was it..the tissue damage...I think also the effects of the bite were more painful overall.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

"yeah that was it..the tissue damage...I think also the effects of the bite were more painful overall"

No doubt Mark, I can only imagine what that horrible hemotoxic necrosis must have felt like!....YIKES!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

it ain't no walk in the park, I assure you, kids, don't try this at home! or like Tracy Morgan says, "So don't copy us!" LOL!
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Todd Hughes

HAHAAA!, i;ll bet they did get his attention!..LOL!

Very cool that you knew him too bro!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

The ol' boy is really getting up in years, and it will DEFINITELY be a sad day for the herpetological industry when he does eventually pass away. Bill was born in 1910, so that now makes him 99-100 years old!.

WOW was he really born in 1910? If so, I wonder if the self-invenomation had anything to do with his long life? I mean, could there be something more to the different venoms he was immune to? Interesting stuff indeed.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Whooops, before Ms. Grammar attacks me i meant to type "envenomation".

sheesh~
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

There are several venoms that mimic the effects of diseases like Parkinson's, Alzheimers, polio, Myesthenia Gravis, etc. If one of the core principals of homeopathic medicine is correct, (let like be cured by like) minute doses of these venoms (what Haast has done) could possably "educate" your immune system to provide a simmilar immune effect to those diseases as the early indicators express themselves. Thanks to Haast, we may one day find out. With all of the useful health giving proteins that have been discovered in snake venoms, I think Haast may have created an interesting area of potential discoveries. Ninety nine years old, man, there's something to it.

Yeah, Bill Haast has blazed a trail for all sorts of future venom work. Like you mentioned, there are many strange beneficial medicinal properties to the enzymes and proteins that different venoms have. Cool stuff for sure!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah, one definitely has to wonder about all that Rainer. Venom has all sorts of weird-ass properties we don't at all fully understand.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Didn't he start injecting himself with venom in the 40's?

Scott

Doug, I just talked with Jerry about it the other day and my wife and I have been looking at houses down there as well. With the market as crazy as it is though we would have to rent our house up here and it drives me crazy thinking about someone messing up all the work I put into it. Probably would not be for another year, but I do see a move to the orange groves in my future. Jerry, you could take up skateboarding again and I will trade in my deer hunting for killing wild hogs. The other white meat. LOL.

LOL!, that would be fabulous to see you come down here to live too Joe!. The three of us would no doubt get together now and then and swap old herping tales..LOL!

Over a few "cold ones" of course..HAHAHAAA!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

My Mom is selling her house and it would be a snake keepers/breeders dream. I think there’s like eleven rooms, it’s just a couple miles from Jacksonville airport, right next to a state forest, four bedroom two bath, $159,000.00. Big separate garage and shed too. I would laugh if a herper bought it. I’d probably come visit you more than I visited her!

House for sale

My Mom is selling her house and it would be a snake keepers/breeders dream. I think there’s like eleven rooms, it’s just a couple miles from Jacksonville airport, right next to a state forest, four bedroom two bath, $159,000.00. Big separate garage and shed too. I would laugh if a herper bought it. I’d probably come visit you more than I visited her!

Ya know i would almost jump on this if i was not stuck trying to sell my home first.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

I really have never had much problem with zonata going off feed, here in NM or in S Cal. I've had multifasciata, parviruba and have a pair of multicincta now. Some hatchlings can be a challenge at first, but take to feeding pretty fast with a few tricks.

Scott

Wow, some incredible animals John. In most cases I like my tri-colors to have bright reds or oranges and yours most definitely do. The thing that strikes me about these snakes is the hypo-e's are just stunning. Most snakes (IMO) don't look as good as hypo-e's. There are some exceptions though---some zonata and obviously these!!

>>Wow, some incredible animals John. In most cases I like my tri-colors to have bright reds or oranges and yours most definitely do. The thing that strikes me about these snakes is the hypo-e's are just stunning. Most snakes (IMO) don't look as good as hypo-e's. There are some exceptions though---some zonata and obviously these!!

Thanks Joe....I like these Hypo-Es too.....And the Classic look has some aweseme RED.
I still can't wait to see a black Mex Mex with those pink/salmon hypo-e saddles or granite pattern....pink speckles on a black ground color.....WOW......heheheehe
I don't know if any will emerge next year but the ingredients are there to produce some eventually.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Stir it the pot well John and hopefully one pops out for ya. I for one would love to see it!!

Super, super cool snakes! Nice pics, what a variety. Gotta love their granite colors.
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- Matt

>>Super, super cool snakes! Nice pics, what a variety. Gotta love their granite colors.

Thanks Matt.....They are pretty variable as all mexicana are......and....I do enjoy the granites and hope to produce some more this year from my totally speckled female and my granite male......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

that's fantastic John. Nice array of variations! I'm glad you're doing this, almost specializing. Good on ya mate. Shannon has some nice goodies too. I've a couple that I'm helping raise up for 'em and it makes me want to have a few permanents....at least I know the two I'd go to if that ever becomes the case. Currently my racks are FULL.
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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

>>that's fantastic John. Nice array of variations! I'm glad you're doing this, almost specializing. Good on ya mate. Shannon has some nice goodies too. I've a couple that I'm helping raise up for 'em and it makes me want to have a few permanents....at least I know the two I'd go to if that ever becomes the case. Currently my racks are FULL.

Thanks Jerry.....
I am rather excited to be able to be doing this....All of the pairings I will be doing wouldn't be possible without Shannon's generosity......I have all the ingredients myself but they are not all breeder size yet so I'm glad Shannon offered his adults. I believe this to be the best conglomeration of Mex Mex anywhere....LOL

I am just crossing my fingers that all goes well this year.....

Specializing is something I want to do.....But I really want to specialize in ALL Montane Kingsnake Species...Ya know, Mex Mex, Alterna, Thayeri, Greeri, Ruthveni, Pyromelena & Zonata......

I lack Alterna & Zonata but I am on a few waiting lists....Hehe
I also would really like a Hypo Greeri & an Striped Amel Ruthveni Project.......I think I may have that covered as well, but I should start saving up the cash now.....

Looks like I'll need to build a wing/annex on the snake room next year too......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Nothing wrong with a "full Rack".LOL.......

L8r

>>Nothing wrong with a "full Rack".LOL.......
>>
>>L8r
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Two full racks is even better...LOL!

Scott

I would've expected something like this from you slappnuts.....I'm trying my best to get over there in April. I got some coconut cream pie for ya.......

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www.freewebs.com/jerrykruse

Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Oh a wise guy huh?

Scott

Some awesome mex mex you have there bro! Of all the mex mex it's the black that I love the most, love the contrasting coloration.

Scott

>>Some awesome mex mex you have there bro! Of all the mex mex it's the black that I love the most, love the contrasting coloration.
>>
>>Scott
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

No problemo!

Scott

You know, I used to not care for mex-mex or any of that group...the photos on this board changed that. Thsoe are freaking awesome.

>>You know, I used to not care for mex-mex or any of that group...the photos on this board changed that. Thsoe are freaking awesome.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Very nice stuff John!. many cool phases to choose from, and I also really like the dark "hypermelanistic" form, although there are certainly others that you and Shannon have that are very interesting as well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Very nice stuff John!. many cool phases to choose from, and I also really like the dark "hypermelanistic" form, although there are certainly others that you and Shannon have that are very interesting as well.
>>
>>
>> ~Doug
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>>"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
>>
>>my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

There all nice but there's a few in there that are unreal.

>>There all nice but there's a few in there that are unreal.

Which ones do you really like Don?
I can't pick any favorites myself....LOL

Thanks for the kind words.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...