Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How does everyone feel on housing hognose pairs together. I have a friend who has a pair and there doesn't seem to be any stress on them. Also they're in a tank 18x36x1. They can go to their individual hides but they seem to like to be together. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Its never a good idea to house snakes together unless they are breeding. They dont need or want buddies.

And I would strongly discourage this with hognose. They can have a huge feeding response, which can end with one getting chewed on, or worse!! I had this happen to me once when I kept a freshly hatched clutch together for too long. I have even heard of neonates going a step further and eating their siblings.

Its never a good idea to house snakes together unless they are breeding. They dont need or want buddies.

Actually Jon with all due respect, this is a very common misconception within the reptile community. While most snakes do not typically associate together under normal circumstances there are several species that do however congregate such as rattlesnakes as well as multiple species that oftentimes inhabit the same den during brumation months.

Having said all of that, I had the distinct pleasure of spending a weekend at Bob Applegate's ranch a couple of years ago. I was rather shocked to see that the majority of his kingsnake and milksnake collection were all cohabitating together and if you remember, kingsnakes are primarily an ophiophagus (snake eating) species. He was cohabitating his snakes on a 1.2 basis and told us that he's only had a few incidents and these were with rogue animals that did not associate well with other snakes under any circumstance.

So, this too can be said of breeding some females that are more prone to eating than anything else where you run the risk of cannabalism whenever you introduce any male. I have a specific female that is like this and I would never leave a male with her unattended. But on the other hand, I have several females that I've kept males with for months without any problems at all. It has even been suggested in some breeders opinions that keeping a pair together over a long term, even during brumation, for specific breeding projects can have better results than us, as keepers, trying to determine when to pair up specific individuals as the animals themselves know and understand when it's their time to breed.

And I would strongly discourage this with hognose. They can have a huge feeding response, which can end with one getting chewed on, or worse!! I had this happen to me once when I kept a freshly hatched clutch together for too long. I have even heard of neonates going a step further and eating their siblings.

I can understand the scenario with neonates. They will typically be hungry after their first shed (usually within a week) and if all they have around is other offspring, to them, this might be their only other food source to consider since they've not been introduced to anything else. I typically separate my neonates within 24 hours of hatching for just these reasons alone.

Again, I think this is highly determinate on individual animals, but yeah, I agree that females can have a huge feeding response, especially when they are going through their 1st and 2nd years or when needing to bulk up for breeding. Overall, it is a safe practice to not keep snakes together just in case. I just don't think that it's the golden rule but more often an ideology or myth that most people abide by without having done any long term studies of it.

Remember, Bob Applegate has been cohabitating and breeding kingsnakes this way for decades and his long term experience has been very different than what is typically advised by other kingsnake breeders. But hognose are a completely different species, so they should be regarded as such with possibly different results.

It's also worthy to note that a lot of Europeans also cohabitate snakes successfully and many an argument has been had on forums over the American mentality of cohabitating versus the European mentality of cohabitating.

For the record, I will state that there will always be an inherent risk whenever you put any two snakes together, whether for cohabitating purposes or for breeding, and that risk is typically multiplied when they are housed over longer periods.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Some species like you said are communal animals and I am aware of that. I am a huge crot fan and am familiar with that behavior. I was just using this as a general rule of thumb, without breaking it down too much.

I spend a lot of time in the field and I rarely find animals grouped together after they have dispersed from their hibernaculum. My field experience has shown me that most snakes are solitary animals, so I treat them the same in captivity. I have very high fertility and no risk of an incident. Better safe than sorry.

All snakes are solitary and will only come together for breeding and hibernation/brumation...

They hibernate together because the do not have a choice for the most part and during hybernation they are pretty inactive and have no interest in feeding...

In the case of rattlesnakes, they hibernate together and stay close to the den in the early part of the year but then dispers as the temps rise to hunt for food... During the summer you will not find rattlesnakes grouped up or even at the den site for the most part...

They do not look for eachother for company... When you see reptiles in one corner of a cage they are not becoming buddies... They are both seeking out the optimal temp range in the cage...

Personally, I do not keep any of my reptiles together because it is much easier to keep track of feeding and the general health of your reptiles... When reptiles cohabitate there is alway competition for food and realestate... By housing them individually, you keep stress to a minimum... Happy reptiles thrive and breed...

OK one last question. If they are solitary and do not seek each other's company then why if one snake is removed and then put back in a different spot in a large tank do they go to each other right away. Also it odes not matter which snake or the temp of the tank. The tank could be one temp and hot and cold spotd

I'll do some more disagreeing. Though I have not done any field work/herping in Hognose range this is from CA only.

I've spent 1000's of hours in the field and have found over 10,000 snakes. The reason Rattlesnakes, and even other species (Garters for example) hibernate together is microhabitat. This is the only reason (most) species of snakes are found together. The only species of snake I have found together no matter the temp/microhabitat are Ringneck snakes. Though Eastern/plains Ringnecks snakes can be found in the 20-50s together under a single board.

In captivity, if you put two snakes in a rack system(or heck even a large cage). The reason why they are found together often, is because the lack of suitable microhabitats and conditions within the cage. Hince as a Varanid keeper if you are going to keep a pair together you HAVE to offer 2-4 hides, 2-4 basking spots PER indivudual being housed together. Other wise you are going to have problems. I have kept Cal Kings together year round, they were well feed, I believe if I hadn't feed them the way I did one of them would have ate one another, because at one time I had brought home 2 DOR Gophersnakes, and each of them ate one, just as it was a mouse that I had normally fed them.

As Jon said I'd rather be safe than sorry doesn't matter on price to me, but if I had just spent $2000 on a snake, and another snake ate it, I'd be pretty pissed at myself for letting that happen. I'm sort of a tight wad when it comes to money. I am not cheap, I just like to have something to show for the money I had spent as I am not wealthy by any means.

Back to the snakes. I've been doing studys on a Den site of Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes for going on 7 years this coming spring. Even at this den site when they are dened up, I rarely find animasl in direct contact. This Den is a breeding/over wintering den. There is another den near by that is a breeding den only. The only time I have ever found them together were nearly born snakes, and snakes that had been breeding. Including one time finding 2 males with one huge female in the same 'rock cave'.

A few months ago I had put a pair of well feed baby Hognose Snakes together in a 16 QT tub (7-8" snakes) so the tub was plenty big, on feeding day I took the snakes out to put them in deli cups for feeding (I don't like feeding babies on bedding) and I noticed on of the snakes had a nice bite mark in his side. Including what looked to be broken ribs. So I personally will not keep them together, inless it is for breeding. Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Chad

Stape61,
Again, they are not seeking attention from eachother... Snakes and most reptiles are generally not social... They have no social structure or need to be in numbers... They live solitary lives and normally do not do well in groups...

What you are seeing is competition for cage space or just attraction to movement... Nothing more... Reptiles do not like or love eachother or their owners... Typically, they lack the parts of the brain that are normally associated with emotion and affection... They are almost purely instinctive...

What you are doing is called anthropomorphization... A lot of reptile owners do this...

Thank you for a response that made the most sense. I keep snakes and firmly believe they should not be kept together and I don't. But I could not understand why my friends snakes did this. Your explanation cleared it up. Thank you