Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I should start having more thoughts of the day!

Regardless of whether you agree with "morphs" or not, they are a large part of this hobby and industry. And we are all as entitled to like and keep them as someone who prefers "normal animals." However when certain venomous keepers who may or may not be on here resort to childish, narrow minded remarks such as calling us "stupid" for liking morphs, or wanting to purchase them, they are in essence alienating themselves from a large part of said industry.

And when the time comes when venomous are on the federal legislative chopping block, do these same people honestly expect people like me to still help fight for them and their dying hobby in return? They are lucky I still even support keeping hots considering all of the bites, screw ups, and irresponsible behavior that takes place with them.

And it is becoming more and more difficult for me to to adhere to the "everybody support everybody" theory every time I hear venomous keepers and their dying hobby make statements such as "why keep genetically defective animals?" i.e morphs. And "only someone stupid would want to buy morphs".
They are only hurting themselves even more so than they already are in the long run when they make these kind of statements. Give no support, and expect none in return.

It slightly surprises me that hots have not made the chopping block, especially given the "safety" portion of the s. 373 propoganda machine. But it is fast approaching, I'm sure--our enemies are waiting for an accident to blow out of proportion--they younger the victim, the better for them. I have nothing against hot keepers (or morph keepers for that matter)Even though I choose not to buy either. I can see and understand your frustration with these comments, although I would ask you to reconsider pulling all your support from a segment of our little community based on the assinine comments of a few folks, as they obviously do not represent the majority--there are plenty of hot morphs (albino WDB, EDB, Monacled cobras, etc.--I'm sure there are others, but as I stated, I'm not into hots). On the other hand, it is healthy to vent, and people who start fights on forums really should find something else to occupy their time, such as running with scissors (j/k)

Isn't it just as likely the hots will come under scrutiny for the same reasons as the burms - that they could survive in Florida ?

I mean, I recall an episode of "Animal Cops Miami" where some of the wildlife crew were trapping supposedly "released" cobras in the wild. IF those cobras were really surviving wild in Florida, I would expect that to get a whole bunch more people afraid then Burmese Pythons...

I am kind of surprised this angle has not been addressed yet BY the folks down in Florida ? Maybe the people pushing S373 were afraid to tack venomous animals onto S373 (yet), for concern that it might then bridge the rift between python/boid keepers and hot keepers, and thereby give us all a reason to work together against this thing, and be stronger ?

Just my 2 cents.

For the segment as a whole that is. Yes, I was venting there too. These people are certainly entitled to their own opinions as we all are on what they want to keep. However when these certain individuals who may or may not be on here make narrow minded comments and judgement calls, and basically talk down on those of us who like different animals than they do, then these individuals obviously DO NOT deserve support from the rest of us. Maybe I didn't make that part clear enough previously.

kill us all....
People are entitled to their opinion on morphs but getting upset about it doesn't do anything but fan the flames of division that will ultimately kill us all. Several years ago I remember a guy on this forum crying about wolf dog owners and how he didn't like them because of how they always cried about their rights to own their animals and how it was somehow unfair to him owning reptiles. I can no longer understand exactly what the correlation was between the two but the guy didn't like the wolf dog people. The sad thing is the wolf dog people have had to do this type of thing for years because they have everybody in the world trying to outlaw them. What this guy and all the rest of us should have done (and probably still do) was reach out to the wolf dog people and anyone else keeping exotics and organize ourselves even more against what is a common enemy. Instead it seems from your comments that you are more worried about alienating people who have a difference of opinion about what you keep rather than focusing that dislike on the real enemy.
An interesting analogy would be the whole pmrc thing back in the eighties, there always seemed to be a bit of tension back in those days between rockers and country musicians (growing up among country musicians I've heard some interesting things said about rock and metal bands over the years.....I like DP UFO and Rainbow myself) yet in the end it was John Denver that gave the most compelling argument to keep the govt. from trying to ban our W.A.S.P. and Motley Crue records.

As I've said previously, I concur with he fact that these certain people are entitled to their own opinions on morphs and whatever else, as am I and everyone else on here. That is not what I have qualms with. If what they want to keep are only $25-50 "normal" animals in their collection than that's fine by me. I do not care.

But I honestly can't see how you can expect me to still lend any support to these same people who in essence talk down on, or accuse me or anyone else who happens to like the different morphs out there of stupidity. See the previous comments as well. And the sad thing I find about that whole thing is, some of these people are long time hot keepers who may be well known on here or elsewhere. I would have expected more professional and mature comments from them than being called a "complete a-hole" for disagreeing with them. That is why I said they are only hurting themselves and their image when they make immature statements.

And I should add that these juvenile remarks to this issue or any other from supposedly experienced and respected people, IMO serve as an embarrassment and poor example for the rest of the venomous community. Regardless of the subject of morphs.

What makes me think that these folks you refer to probably would not save their own skins due to apathy? The lax view they have towards herpers whos' animals are different from their own. This is the way I look at it--I have specific interests in herps yes, but at the end of the day I know how I would feel if the species I kept were coming under fire, and as such I lend support to all facets of herpetoculture regardless of what they keep (even if I do believe they have no business with such and animal--it is their life after all). Although I do understand what you are saying--if these people individually came under fire, you (or I for that matter) would leave them hanging. Support the whole--but you can pick and choose individuals; and those that are a-holes to others do not deserve support.

>> An interesting analogy would be the whole pmrc thing back in the eighties, there always seemed to be a bit of tension back in those days between rockers and country musicians (growing up among country musicians I've heard some interesting things said about rock and metal bands over the years.....I like DP UFO and Rainbow myself) yet in the end it was John Denver that gave the most compelling argument to keep the govt. from trying to ban our W.A.S.P. and Motley Crue records.

Actually the two best testimonies on that front were first Dee Snider and then John Denver. Dee Snider's testimony was AMAZING. I think he shocked the world with how well spoken he could be. I was still floored how hard they were going after "Rocky Mountain High" as a drug song. Even more floored was I when Al Gore was in the VP run and both he and tipper spoke of their love for the Grateful Dead. I mean come on. John Denver is the druggie here? Of course that is the logic of govt.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Email Cindy
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

I would rather not be divisive due to my ego. If I sit and argue with others about the animals they work with, I waste time and energy. I guarantee your morphs are better than my morphs, o.k.? With that settled, we should acknowledge the fact that even as we may win a battle here and there, the war will continue. I recently picked up a newspaper at a military base which lists 57 animal welfare non-profits (HSUS is not on the list) but PETA is. The paper lists PETA as one of the best animal welfare organizations to donate money to. This is serious. They will not stop until they get a cut. Simple.

I recently picked up a newspaper at a military base which lists 57 animal welfare non-profits (HSUS is not on the list) but PETA is. The paper lists PETA as one of the best animal welfare organizations to donate money to. This is serious. They will not stop until they get a cut. Simple.

I'm guessing the "newspaper" of which you speak is the brochure for the Combined Federal Campaign. It is pushed very hard throughout every federal agency, not just the military.

Think of the millions employed by the federal govt. Many employees give, either of their own free will or by undue pressure from peers/supervisors (illegality of supervisor influence notwithstanding). The employee can either designate where their contributions go (there is much more than just animal rights/welfare organizations), but many just make one "general" donation--and this money gets distributed evenly among all participating charities, so PeTA even gets a cut of that money too even though the contributor may not even realize what they're supporting.

I wonder if we can get USARK added to the list of charities in the CFC?

-----
Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Pure genius on your part. Add USARK to the list because they are fighting for our freedom as well.

Chris, YOU da' MAN!
-----
Todd Hughes

anyone with DP, UFO, and Rainbow on the top of their list is all right by me! Especially if you were previously from my neck of the thornscrub! Scorps and Denver, what a Motley Crue, lol!

-----
Todd Hughes