Reptile & Amphibian Forums

first of all, i have a male hypo-het translucent thats about 9mths old and 16" long. first question is do males brumate? he has not been eating as much and staying on the cooler side of his cage for a week or two now...he has also been keeping his eyes closed a little more than usual..are these signs of brumation.

second, i have a female yellow-tiger dragon that is about 4mths old and 7" long. she has been real weird ever since i got her.. ie: not eating or pooping regularly, hissing etc. well she finally got to pooping and what not but now since winter started she has been doing the same as the male. my question is do baby dragon brumate? is this normal?

thanks in advance..i really appreciate it..thanks..

craig
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0.1 hypo het trans Bearded Dragon (tuesday)
0.0.1 citrus/yellow bearded dragon
0.1 Wife (Eryn) WC
0.1 Daughter (Lily) CBB
0.1 Brindle Boxer (Marley)
0.1 Mut (Bailey)

Both males and female dragons brumate though its not usual for young dragons, under a year old to do so.

It is possible your male is entering brumation but I don't want to simply assume so before I learn more about your setup. You indicated he is keeping his eyes closed more than usual, does he keep his eyes closed alot during the day? Dragons should have their eyes open all the time during the day. Babies do 'nap' during the day but should come instantly alert at any noise etc.

The younger female who isn't eating regularly or pooping, could be having other issues. How long have you had her? What are you offering her to eat and how often?

Are both dragons in the same cage or in separate cages? What are the temperatures (basking and ambient/cool side temps), substrate, cage size, etc. The more information we have the better we can assess the situation.
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PHLdyPayne

hi thanks for the reply, both dragons are in seperate cages, both 3x2x18" enclosures. the cages are custom made and are stacked. both cages have a CHE, a spot lamp and flexwatt underneath-which i seldom use.

my temperature for male is around 110 and for the female, it is near 100 for the hot side and around 75-80 for the cool side.

the substrate for the male is playsand and the female is on plastic sign material, basically no substrate to prevent impaction.

the male has only recently be "hibernating" he just goes and hides on the cool side of the cage and barely ever moves. finally pooped this morning though, but his appetite has been small.

the female ive only had for about 2mths and when i bought her she was an awesome looking yellow color. she came from the same breeder i bought the male from, but she has seemed to never "settle in".

any help would be appreciated.
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0.1 hypo het trans Bearded Dragon (tuesday)
0.0.1 citrus/yellow bearded dragon
0.1 Wife (Eryn) WC
0.1 Daughter (Lily) CBB
0.1 Brindle Boxer (Marley)
0.1 Mut (Bailey)

What are the weights of the dragons? Especially the younger female? A weight scale that measures in gram increments is an absolute necessity for reptiles.

First thing wrong I see is you don't have (or didn't mention having) any source of UVB. Dragons need daily exposure to UVB rays from bulbs that produce them (for your tank size, the UVB florescent tubes will be your only option). UVB allows their bodies to produce Vitamin D3 which in turn is needed to utilize ingested calcium. Without one or more of these things, your dragon can't thrive.

Replace the CHE with UVB florescent tubes. There is no practical use of Ceramic Heat emitters in bearded dragon tanks. They need bright and warm spot/flood lights providing both heat and light to simulate the sun. Though CHE's produces heat for them, dragons don't recognize it as a 'heat source'. Dragons instinctively go for the brightest and highest area they can reach to get warm, even if this spot isn't the warmest part of their enclosure.

Next thing, not sure the coroplast (plastic sign material you mentioned) is a good substrate choice, it may be too slippery....and if not in a single section and sealed, fluids can leak around the edges and seams...though as substrate choices go, its a pretty good one. If it seems your dragon is having a hard time moving about on it, cover with paper towel. If she moves fine, then don't worry about it.

However, if the cage has a plastic smell...I would remove it. The heat from the lamps may induce it to release toxic chemicals...but I have heard this stuff used in Chameleon cages and I don't think there was any toxicity issues, but I rather err on the side of caution.

Back to heat...CHE and flexwatt won't be necessary at all, if you have a good spotlight heat source. If nighttime temperatures in the room the cage is in drops below 65F at night, then supplemental heat at night may be necessary, either from the CHE or flexwatt on a thermostat. You don't' want nighttime temps to be over 75F though. Between 70-75F is good temperature to aim for for night time heat.

Just to make sure, the 100F hot side temp, is this air temperature or surface temperature of the basking spot? If Air temp, its too high, should be lowered to about 90F. The surface temperature of the basking spot should fall between 100-120F. To measure surface temperature, use either a temp gun (best method) or a digital thermometer with probe which can be lain directly ontop of the basking spot.

For the female, can you give more detail on her behavior? Never adjusted since you bought her doesn't tell much...is she eating at all? Is she hiding all the time? Does she bask or hang out on the cool side of the cage all the time or in her hide? What are you offering her for food? How often? Do you handle her at all? If so, how often?
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PHLdyPayne

It's already been mentioned,but you MUST have some fluorescent uvb bulbs ....a dimly lit cage and lack of uvb will DEFINITELY cause your dragon to become lethargic.You will probably see immediate results once you get the proper lighting.Watch for signs of leg trembling which is a definite sign of calcium deficiency.You can go with a Zoo-med repti-sun 5.0 or 10.0 bulb....don't bother with the coil type though,and be sure that she can bask within 6-7" of the uvb bulb.

im sorry, i forgot to mention that i have a reptisun 10.0 compact in each cage. the che's only run at night. or sometimes during the day depending on temperature.. the female has eaten crickets on occasion. i offer her spring mix, apples, mangos, baby spinach everyday. i am raising her the same way i did the male.

i dont have a scale but she looks healthy. i will take pictures tomorrow. i have had dragons over the years and she looks in good health.

maybe im just over-reacting...its has gotten pretty cold down here in louisiana so i thought the temperature may be a factor. i have them in my shed out back. and its insulated. the outside temps play a small factor but when its freezing outside at night, i bring the lizards inside.

again i raised the male up from a baby and he did awesome, so maybe i just need to have some patience and let her eat when she wants...

i just need a little re-assurance i guess.

thanks for the replies..

craig
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0.1 hypo het trans Bearded Dragon (tuesday)
0.0.1 citrus/yellow bearded dragon
0.1 Wife (Eryn) WC
0.1 Daughter (Lily) CBB
0.1 Brindle Boxer (Marley)
0.1 Mut (Bailey)

There have been so many problems with compact fluorescent bulbs that I just don't trust them at all. I would change to a linear tube.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-tests.htm

I just wanted to mention that in a large cage,the one spot bulb along with the compact bulb will not be producing an over all bright cage...beardies thrive in a brightly lit cage...it would be to the dragon's benefit to get the linear tube.Also,I wanted to mention that the diet should be DARK leafy greens as a staple...mustard and turnip greens are MUCH more important than the diet that you are using [ they are loaded with calcium and nutrients] Apples should not be used...they can be a bowel irritant ...fruits in general should only make up a VERY small amount of the diet....spinach is not good as it is known to bind calcium.Don't take this as criticism...people seem to think that since fruit tastes better to us then it's good for the beardies but it's just not so.Dark,leafy greens that I mentioned are also better than your spring mix by far.You can feed the excess greens to your crickets.

One thing I don't like about the compact bulbs is they tend to produce a very high brightness in a small area with may be irritating to the eyes. Some of the UVB compact bulbs produce a too hight UV Index which is damaging to skin and the retinas (see the link BDLvr provided for info about the conditions high UV-Index producing bulbs cause. (this is the same UV Index warnings we get in the summer (maybe year around in warmer areas than where I live) which is known to cause skin cancer). Also, if I remember correctly, your cage isn't too high...18" I think you said it was. As compacts tend to 'hang' into the cage (assuming you are mounting the fixture on the inside of the top of the cage) it would be even closer to your dragon and the intensity of light may be more harmful than good. Also, if this UVB compact is of the type that produce a high UV index, your dragon is more likely to be within the more dangerous UV-Index range than it would be if the cage was 24" high.

Best to switch to a linear UVB producing bulb. These don't produce such a high UV-Index even if the dragon is in contact with the bulb (don't put them into direct contact with the bulb of course).. What I use for my dragon cages are double fixture florescent tube shop light types which come with their own plug. These come in assorted lengths and for your cage, a 3' fixture would be best. My cage is much longer than yours so I use 4' (in a 5' long cage). I use a Exo-terre UVB 8.0 bulb and a full spectrum 'grow' tube I buy at the hardware store to increase overall light in the cage. I use flood bulbs for the basking spot.

The diet you are currently using is not very good for dragons. Spring mix tends to have a high portion of useless greens (red and green leaf lettuce, romaine; which have low nutritional value), spinach which binds calcium making it unusable to the body, with a bit of good healthy greens, depending on the particular brand of spring mix you are using.) Adding additional spinach just makes the salad you are providing even more hampering. Too much fruit is also bad, leading to watery stool and nutritional imbalances.

A healthy salad should contain at least two of the following greens: Collard greens, mustard greens, turnup greens, dandelion greens. Other greens which can be mixed in with these staples are endive, escarole, beat greens, and others. A very good list of greens which can be offered (and how often they should be offered) can be found here:
www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html
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PHLdyPayne