Reptile & Amphibian Forums

these love couples have it made, what more could they ask for.

>>these love couples have it made, what more could they ask for.
>>

They could ask for much more actually. Those cages offer nothing in the way of depth for a burrowing species such as ackies. If they could talk, they might tell you to give them a deep sand dirt mix rather than three inches of coco dust.

For you Sidbarvin your right I'm going to throw all them out tomorrow and start all over again just for you. ( ant jealousy a b...)

I think you're missing the point. Somethings you should think about.

For one, an animal born to dig is deprived of the ability to. Helps with keeping hydrated in a deep, humid burrow and it also helps with an animals physique(sp). I've used and mucked with eco earth for plenty of years and agree that it doesnt hold monitor burrows pretty well, gets dry pretty quickly and eventaully turns really loose. Add in a tub(something to hold 6 or 7 inches of sandy soil) in one of neo cages to allow them the OPTION to do so.

The 2nd reason is just as important. Lets say you do have a positive pair(which also appear of size to breed), you will run into conflict with a female getting egg bound, scattered eggs, or worst, a dead female. Breeders describe females monitor lizards to be fairly picky about the nestin/laying site. It needs to be a perfect consitancy for them, as well as temperature.

Good luck.

I like you sulfurboy1o3 I know what your saying is on the money and changes will be made but for now their juvies i have plenty of time to add or reconstruct their inviroment. but as for my old friend goes Sibarvin he has always had a nasty way about him just being his judgementle self like always about other peoples enjoyments. as far as im concern he can go back to his other forums were he comes from and belongs.

but before you do it might be a good idea to do some research and speak with some successfull keepers of ackies and copy their set ups so you'll have someplace to put them when you dispose of the garbage.

complaint has been made against you. good bye.

A simple, valid critisism is hardly grounds to launch a complaint with the administration here hahaha.

I'm surprised that someone who has participated in these fora for as long as you have would expect to recieve anything but critisism for the setups pictured on your other thread. It's commonly accepted that vision cages do not accomodate the needs of captive varanids. It's unfortunate you've chosen to become offended by my comments but you will likely get much more of the from others.

The point of these fora, at least as far as I'm concerned, it to advance this hobby through the sharing of information. Part of that process involves pointing out one anothers shortcomings (constructive critisism). Sorry to say it, but your conjoined cages are a huge step backward. They look nearly identical to a cage I saw a half dozen sickly savs dying in at petco the other day.

First of all there not vision cages as you stated (oops) there NEODASHA CAGES and second they dont sell (monitors) especially savanas in petco any more, try a little harder maybe you will impress me with your not so much knowledge. I dont even know why i waste my time talking or responding to you, you make me laugh.

Well, they're your animals suit yourself. The point is, cages should be built to suit the specific needs of the animals not the keepers. A lot of factors should be considered before hand. Ackies are a terrestrial species that spend a fair amount of time under ground. Again you have provided no means for them to enguage in one of their most basic instinctive behaviors. I'm sure you think you are giving them ample space to move with the gerbil setup but it does not seem as though you have given much thought to their natural history, something that should most definately be researched extensively and shape how a cage is set up. With the money you dumpped into those visi-whatever they are cages, you could have built an awesome setup for your animals with tons of room to burrow.

I think the setup was a good idea. Definitely a good way to have different temps and humidifies to suite different needs. and while it would be nice to have one with a deep burrowing substrait, burrowing is not completely necessary if proper temps and humidity is kept. I think some kind of container in one cage containing deep substrait would be fine. The criticism (while not wrong) should have been said a little better. anyways awesome job on the setup, keep trying different things though until you get it right. It will be interesting to see how much they stay together with a few cages to choose from. You can even use the different cages to try out different things and let them choose what they like.

Sir,

I can imagine you got quite excited when you thought of that cage setup. I'm sure you were giddy with anticipation of your monitors happily frolicking throughout the cages. I'm sure you couldn't wait to post your brillant idea on the forum and have everyone sing your praises and tell you how ingenious you were.

So I can also imagine how disappointed you were to be told that your idea while novel, was grossly out of whack with the husbandry needs of ackies. And that all your work and genius thought was in vain and that your ackies would probably be better off in a galvanized trash can filled with dirt and a single 45 watt flood lamp at the top.

This is a hard thing to swallow. We keep these animals for us...and when designing their cages usually put some of our own bias into their construction. For a beginner it is easy to see a pretty cage and think wow it looks like paradise so my animals must be in paradise.

I really hope you reconsider your sentiments and maybe choke up your pride and admit to yourself that as cool as your setup looks it might be better suited to another animal. Just think the thermal gradient you could set up for a snake it that habitat...That'd be pretty cool.

Thanks to whom ever likes it. like i said before its what i like and i believe from a lotta different ideas that i have come across and seen from other peoples set ups like mentioned a galvanized trash can filled with dry dirty dirt with the animals looking grayish and dried up i feel that was not the way to go. they may not have all their burrowing capabilitys but Dam they do have their basic important needs like humidity and coco fiber,dirt and sand set up along with proper lighting they even use the tunnels as a place to hide when they dont burrow which they sometimes do and it is cool to see. you have to remeber something, an animal which is CB from an animal that is wild caught wont reconise the change as much in life as if it was wild caught and taken out of its wild inviroment.CB will think thats how it is and surpose to be with what it is given, do you think animals in zoos and the circus dont adjust to their harsh inviroments, they do.

Wow some people never change!!!!

As stated by everyone else Akies are a burrowing spices.If you do not provide them with what they need,you have no business keeping them.

greg

I really don't get the rantings going on. This 'situation' is really easy to fix. Just place a tub in there that has a lid on it. Make sure it has a hole or two cutout so the lizards can fit in there if they wanted. Heat should be focused on the tub to make the soil about 84 degrees'ish.

Im guessing my second important reason really passed your head.
Options, options, options!

Just an idea, but maybe you could replace the last cage with some other kind of cage that can have a foot or 2 of dirt?

yes, thats a good thats what im going to do im going to fill up the last cage with 12 inches of soil, not another dam inch. now please enough before were labled a "Hot topic" here Hey i hope when they breed and give me babies all of you are around to buy them.

>>Thanks to whom ever likes it. like i said before its what i like and i believe from a lotta different ideas that i have come across and seen from other peoples set ups like mentioned a galvanized trash can filled with dry dirty dirt with the animals looking grayish and dried up i feel that was not the way to go. they may not have all their burrowing capabilitys but Dam they do have their basic important needs like humidity and coco fiber,dirt and sand set up along with proper lighting they even use the tunnels as a place to hide when they dont burrow which they sometimes do and it is cool to see. you have to remeber something, an animal which is CB from an animal that is wild caught wont reconise the change as much in life as if it was wild caught and taken out of its wild inviroment.CB will think thats how it is and surpose to be with what it is given, do you think animals in zoos and the circus dont adjust to their harsh inviroments, they do.

I more amazed with each successive post from you Grog. Again, for the amount of time I personally have seen you posting various varanid fora, you seem to have surprisingly little understanding of these animals. What makes you think that your cbb animals are any different than wild caught monitors aside from the fact that wc are stressed to the max from being shipped from half way around the world and are loaded with parasites while yours are not. These are the only differences. Your animal is hard wired with the exact same instincts right from the egg as are it's wild cousins. They know everything they need they need to from the first day they see daylight on earth. They have the same behaviors and tendencies so long as they are provided the means to perform them. It is our responsibility as keepers to provide an environment which allows as many natural behaviors as possible. Again, if we did not point out the flaws in one anothers husbandry, we would still be keeping monitors in fishtanks, wire cages and using newspaper as substrate. But, I suppose so long as you think the cages are NEATO, then that's all that matters, heh heh.

When you see your ackies digging frantically at the corners of the cages, maybe you'll begin to believe you are missing something very important.

I love you too man or women, hehe.(Get a real life)

It's become pretty apparent to me how the plethora of great info that is shared on these message boards has passed right over your head. You think this is about you, but the fact of the matter is, I could care less about you or your silly comments. I post on these boards for the sake of the animals, both those of others and my own. You expected praise and were let down. It looks to me like you spent a fair amount of money on some high dollar snake cages thinking others would be impressed to please yourself. It's pretty obvious you've taken little consideration of the actual needs of those ackies. The truth is, I've seen better quality cages built from, trash bins, plastic 55 gal waste disposal drums, and big storage totes bought for $10 at wal-mart.

We would be doing this hobby and those reading through these threads, new to varanids themselves, a great disservice if we did not point out the obvious problems with your setup, grog.

Im sorry but your kinda freaking me out now with your sense of humor, my freind i think you need to seek professional help in a lot of areas have a nice day,hope you get better.

Wow!!! Are you so full of yourself that you really aren't willing to take some advice and reevaluate the setup you have provided for your animals? But instead ridicule those who have given you some valid husbandry experience...

Why must you mistake their criticism as a personal attack on you?

Nate83 your more then welcome to keep the conversation going with that person, Here-(instead ridicule those who have given you some valid husbandry experience)(You expected praise and were let down. It looks to me like you spent a fair amount of money on some high dollar snake cages thinking others would be impressed to please yourself.)(With the money you dumpped into those visi-whatever they are cages)(Sorry to say it, but your conjoined cages are a huge step backward). They look nearly identical to a cage I saw a half dozen sickly savs dying in at petco the other day.(so you'll have someplace to put them when you dispose of the garbage)Nate83 if you dont see something wrong with this persons personal attacks then maybe you and him should go out and have a cup a coffee some time, as far as im concerned i think i would of got the idea about my set up the first time which i did but i dont need a person who is rude self feeding his ego by feeding it with personal attack on others over and over where it would never end. im actually surprised kingsnake left him stay on here to keep up with his bull [bleep] this long. well i am proud of what i have made and i know it will need some adjustments to help benifit my ackies and it will just take time.

firs off let me say my involvement in monitor lizards stops dead at wishing to hopefully get a green or blue tree in the future, as far in the future as that may be. i therefore have zero knowledge and experience dealing with monitors. but i do enjoy checking out this forum for info (i love when Tom posts)

anyways i read through this post and i admit that i though the cage set up was a cool idea (again zero monitor experience)... but after reading through the whole thread there was only one flaw, lack of room for digging, nothing else was specifically mentioned.

my question is that if say another section where provided with 1 or 2 feet of good digging would there be anything else wrong with this set up?

sorry im not looking to add "fuel to the fire" just looking for an honest answer not to prove anything just to better understand for myself and nothing more.
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 Fiance (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Sidbarvin, you are wasting your time trying to educate this guy. The fact that he thinks the galvanized troughs have dry dirt proves it. Why would anyone use dry dirt?The dirt has to be moist for them to dig in, and they need the humidity in their burrows.Grogan, I understand that you spent quite a bit on that set-up. It is a good looking display. In my "opinion", a good idea might be, putting deep DAMP dirt in one of the middle set-ups.I "think" you will have a good looking, funtional enclosure.
Joe

already working in that.silicon has to dry,then coms the dirt.

I realise I am wasting my time with this particular individual, in fact I knew it before I even commented as I have had very similar dialogue with him on another forum in the past with pretty much the same result, hahaha.This being the case, I did not post for his benefit, but rather the benefit of others new to the hobby who might be reading these threads. People tend to be fooled by things that look nifty and costly if they don't know any better. I'd hate to see others copying his setup because it's so "NEATO"

first of all your wrong you don't only look out for animals you also like to criticize people for what they have, you try to discourage and humiliate them for what they have done, if you don't believe me read your own post they all have the same sort of critisism. and then hear you try to speak out like your a Savior of animals or an expert of the forum and yes its true you have done this to others and me in other forums also in the past. maybe now people will come to see the real person (Sidbarvin).as they always say when your attacked exspect to be attacked back, and you know what so sad about this whole situation i followed you and did the same and i apologise to everybody on this monitor forum for it and maybe im not an exspert but i never said i was but dam i try to learn but not from people like you.

Sorry Grog, but it has nothing to do with any type of personal attack, my ego or any of the other rubbish you've spouted. You've chosen to take it personally rather than to try and understand what the spirit of critisism is really about. Others with a bit of experience would say the same things about your setup, as they already have on this thread. You may not like the way I convey my messages, but nothing I have said about your set-up is wrong and really, the fact of the matter is, I don't care that you have become offended. You can be bull-headed all you like and say what you wish but it's no skin off my rear end. I've already explained my intentions and the motivation behind my posts and none of it has to do with my ego or any hidden agendas as you might think. I'm too old to play silly games with children to boost my ego.

When I began participating in the discussions on these message boards my husbandry was in the dark ages. I quickly realised my setups sucked and there were individuals around here who had a much better understanding of these animals and their needs than myself. I was critisised a great deal in the beginning but took no offense because these people were simply telling me the truth for the sake of my animals. I know it's hard for you to understand, but this really is not about you.

Does this mean this discussion is over? Because we have taken up to much space in this forum. Oh by the way i just purchesed 2 Varanus t. tristis today they are awasome would you like to see a picture?

No, that's ok. I know what they look like. However, I know a few people who have done quite well with V. tristis and have even hatched a few. A couple of them breed ackies as well. If you'd like I could send you a PM with how they can be contacted. Maybe they will give you a few pointers on how to set up your new friends as well as help you sort out the problems with your ackie setup.

sure send it.

Are the tristis the ones that you have up for sale? Did you figure out the sexes yet?
Joe

yes those are the ones for sale, no i only know one is a male and the second is unsexed i spoke to the person who owned them and there not sure if the second one is a female but she said its possable maybe female because it has small spurs as to the other one his are more pronounced.

Grog,Not trying to start anything but if you read through the posts, it was you who was first rude. Sid was just making a suggestion and you got offended.

I apologized already to every one this is old news thanks.

>>firs off let me say my involvement in monitor lizards stops dead at wishing to hopefully get a green or blue tree in the future, as far in the future as that may be. i therefore have zero knowledge and experience dealing with monitors. but i do enjoy checking out this forum for info (i love when Tom posts)
>>
>>anyways i read through this post and i admit that i though the cage set up was a cool idea (again zero monitor experience)... but after reading through the whole thread there was only one flaw, lack of room for digging, nothing else was specifically mentioned.
>>
>>my question is that if say another section where provided with 1 or 2 feet of good digging would there be anything else wrong with this set up?
>>
>>sorry im not looking to add "fuel to the fire" just looking for an honest answer not to prove anything just to better understand for myself and nothing more.
>>-----
>>-Stephen-
>>
>>0.1 Fiance (Babe)
>>1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
>>1.0 norm corn (Jake)
>>1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
>>0.1 ball python (Bella)
>>1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

The cages are too confining, in my opinion, and offer nothing that even remotely resembles the natural habitat of this species. These animals are highly active and need room to move. It's only a few steps for one of them to go from one end of one of those boxes to the other and definately not enough room for them to run. The quality setups I have seen others keeping groups of ackies in are large some as large as 4'x8' and have plenty of room for sandy dirt or plain sand. They do not live in or on coco peat in the wild. These keepers report the animals having extensive networks of burrows. They also provide many rocky crags and crevices which they have been found to use in the wild not only for security but in order to thermoregulate as well. Along with these things the animals are also provided with plenty of open space for the animals to move about. Things like this become especially important when housing groups of two or more, even breeding pairs, as inevitably, it becomes necessary for them to seek refuge from cagemates. Filling one of those cages with some dirt simply won't cut it for animals that are capable of filling a 4'x8' area of substrate that is 2 feet deep with tunnels. Even that amount of space and substrate is nothing compared to what is available to them in the wild. I do not keep ackies, but the odatria I do keep, timors to be exact, were kept in a 4'x4'x8' tall cage with the walls completely covered with bark, logs and branches which provide tons of tight places for them to escape one another, and still I ended up separating them due to agression issues. I just see a lot of problems arising from his setup.

On a whim, I ventured over here and saw this post. I hope I can offer some helpful and necessary information, which I learned from others and my own bumbling experience!

I began having breeding success with my Ackies when I provided a deep, moist substrate that had a wide range of temperatures.

I have a stock tank filled with 18-21" of dirt/ sand mix in some places. The stock tank has a heat pad on the side of it, allowing a range of substrate temperatures. I have measured the temperature of the female's nesting sites with my temperature gun and they have been around 86F.

During my first year or so I tried all kinds of substrate mixes (including peat moss, coco husk, sand, dirt) and many of them were worthless. I asked lots of questions, bugged lots of people, tried what they suggested, and figured it out by listening to others who had success.

I began putting what I knew about their natural history into practice. I had to find a substrate mix that supported them and reflected what they needed/ wanted. I paid attention to their behavior, thought about what I was trying to achieve and what my results actually were (i.e. no results), and everything became much easier.

Until I had the right mix, right temperature, and right moisture level, my female was rushing around or dumping eggs on the surface. Once I actually paid attention to the animals and listened to those who were telling me "Heat the substrate more, put a board on top of the substrate to keep moisture in and support her burrows," it was easy.

I know you care about your animals. You really desire to give them a top notch setup. I urge you, however, to think about how they live in the wild, what they need (what a female needs), and how you can provide it. Unfortunately, I don't think Neodesha or Vision cages can provide deep enough sand/ soil for successful breeding and life. A small tub/ container of dirt will not suffice either.

Female Ackies spend a lot of time in the rock piles, in hollows, in burrows. I see the male all the time, but the female will duck away if she hears me or sees me. She essentially lives in the substrate. She comes out to eat, bask, drink water, etc. but most of her time is near a burrow/ hide or in it.

Hopefully this helps. Good luck!