Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My son has had a ball python for a couple months now. It got a URI and has been treated (We think) but when we were at the vet she mentioned a little mouth rot. I was stressed about the snake (And let's face it....the bill) and after we had left I realized that nothing was said about the mouth. I called back and got some medicine for it but I'm really worried. I will try to get a picture on here but I'll describe it now. It looks like someone put dark brown lipstick on it. It goes completely from one side to the other. From what I have read it doesn't really sound like mouth rot but what would it be. We are putting Zylafen on it but I don't see it getting better. It also seems like his mouth is trying to stick shut and he's wheezing once in awhile. Does anyone has any idea what is going on?

Sounds more like dried mucus around the mouth. Mouth rot would have reddish mouth lining, swollen gums, a white cottage cheese like substance, and maybe in severe cases dead tissue may appear brown.

A soak in warm water (80F) for ten minutes may allow the crust to soften and come off.
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PHLdyPayne

It sounds like the python still has a respiratory infection. Drooling is one of the symptoms and the discharge can be many different colors (or it could be that it is clear, but sticky and is being stained by the substrate you are using).

Either the initial round of antibiotics wasn't given for long enough duration to kill off all of the bacteria or it is also possible that he had more than one type of bacteria present and the antibiotic was not the proper treatment for the secondary infection.

I'm sure you already tried some of the standard "at home" techniques (such as raising the temperature and adjusting the humidity). Be sure that you have also sterilized his environment during the course of his treatment.

Remove all cage furniture (water dishes, hides, etc.) and soak them in a bleach and water solution according the directions on the back of your bleach bottle (not all bleach is of the same strength/concentration so it is best to read the bottle).

Place the snake in a safe secure container (a sealed rubbermaid works well) and wipe down the interior of his container with your bleach and water solution. Allow everything to air dry.

I usually follow disinfection with an actual cleaning. Cleaning and disinfecting are not the same thing. Simple soap and water will work for this process. The bleach is used to kill harmful bacteria while the soap is needed to break the surface tension of the water and allow you to actually remove the dirt and debris (even that stuff you can't see).

Again, let everything dry thoroughly.

During the course of treating his RI don't use your regular substrate. Instead, use newspaper, or some sort of paper "liner". This will allow you to see any discharge much easier as well as making it easier to clean. Plus, you won't have to worry about any substrate sticking to (and possibly blocking) his mouth or nostrils.

I would suggest bringing the snake back to the vet (call around and find a vet that has experience with reptiles). Let us know where you are located and maybe someone on here lives near you and can either check out your setup or suggest a good vet in your area (or both).

The forums are pretty good for general care, but at the end of the day, if your snake is sick or injured there isn't much we can do (even if our diagnosis is correct). Yes, a vet can get to be expensive, but if you can find a good one and get this illness cleared up it can be worth it in the end. Remember, these animals can live 30 years with proper care and in that light the cost of a vet over 30 years is actually less than it would be for a dog or cat.

Once this gets cleared up, if you and your son can maintain the proper temperatures, humidity and other cage requirements you two should have a pet that rarely (if ever) gets sick again. I've only dealt with one case of RI (a little over ten years ago when I first started keeping herps) and since then every animal has been healthy.
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Stay United!

"...I say 'apparently' because despite all our progress she is not at all a tame or handle-able snake and gettting her from that cage would re-start a war.. and we've had a good armistice for several months now."-Gus Rentfro - I love this quote!

If and when you bring your snake back to the vet make sure that he/she takes a sample of the mucous and/or discharge and does a culture so that they can prescribe the proper antibiotic.

And, please, keep us updated... let us know where your are so that maybe we can suggest a good vet in your area.
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Stay United!

"...I say 'apparently' because despite all our progress she is not at all a tame or handle-able snake and gettting her from that cage would re-start a war.. and we've had a good armistice for several months now."-Gus Rentfro - I love this quote!

photos of the snake. They are the best I could do with my stupid phone.

Hope they worked.

We just had him into the vet last week. Off and on before then he would have white, cheesy looking stuff hanging out of his mouth (Looked like skin but thick). That has completely gone away now but it looks weird. It's not stained from the medicine because it looked like that BEFORE medicine was applied. It is hard to tell if it looks better or worse. It's not wet anymore but yesterday he couldn't open his mouth in the front. It was like it had stuck shut. I have had snakes on and off for years but have never dealed with mouth rot or anything like that. It's new to me and I'm not even sure that's what it is. I will try to take a picture with my phone and see how it turns out.

Your pictures aren't clear enough to really see what is going on, but it is obvious that he needs to be checked out again.

Definitely get a culture done. Sometimes an x-ray will show the vet a little more of what is going on.

What type of enclosure are you keeping him in (tank, tub, rack)?
What are the temperatures (high and low) and humidity levels?
What type of substrate do you currently have in his enclosure?
Do you have any other reptiles? If so, you might want to quarantine him in another room separate from your other animals.

I'm not trying to question your ability or experience, since I don't know you I figure it would be better to err on the side of caution and "over-explain" things. I don't mean to insult your intelligence, experience, or abilities.

Where are you located? Even if you decide not to bring him to a different vet, someone on here may be able to suggest a different local vet that your veterinarian can consult with. Sometimes two heads are better than one.
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Stay United!

"...I say 'apparently' because despite all our progress she is not at all a tame or handle-able snake and gettting her from that cage would re-start a war.. and we've had a good armistice for several months now."-Gus Rentfro - I love this quote!

lol, not insulted at all.

He is in a 20L. Temp fluctuates between about 75 and 92. He has reptile carpet in the bottom and humidity is between 60% and 70%.

I am in SW Missouri. There are two herp vets in town so maybe I'll call the second one as the first one wasn't overly impressive.

>>lol, not insulted at all.
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>>He is in a 20L. Temp fluctuates between about 75 and 92. He has reptile carpet in the bottom and humidity is between 60% and 70%.
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>>I am in SW Missouri. There are two herp vets in town so maybe I'll call the second one as the first one wasn't overly impressive.

What do you mean by "Temp fluctuates between 75 and 92"? It should have a steady temp 24/7. That is probably a lot of your problem right there. You need a constant temp on the hot and cold side. What are you using to heat the cage? Could you post a pic of the setup? If it were me, I would clean as much of that junk out of his mouth with a q-tip until you can get to the other vet. If the first vet you went to did not notice his mouth looking like that then you are just throwing your money away going to him.
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John Vandegrift

I meant that the temp is about 75 on the cool end and about 90 on the basking end. Sorry, should have been more clear.

When we went to the vet he didn't look like that. He had been going back and forth with the white cheesy stuff sticking out (looked like his gums were hanging out) and the next day it looked like it looks now. I was not real thrilled with her (the vet) anyway though because she never said a word about how to fix the mouth rot. I had too much on my mind and hadn't realized it until we left. I have been trying to research ever since. The cage is just a 20L with reptile carpet, a large water dish and a quartz crystal to help with shedding. That is not the cage he was in when this started though. We moved him to a larger cage in a warmer area of the house. I hadn't realized how cool it was getting at night where he was. The setup now is much better but I think the old setup brought this on or didn't help anyway. Now we are just trying to fix it. We are also misting the cage once/twice a day to help with humidity.

What is "about 90" or "about 75"?

Temperature is the single most important husbandry detail, and your snake is showing the effects of long term sub-optimal temps.

How are you taking your temperature? I would bet money that your temps are even colder than you are guessing, and your hot spot isn't nearly enough. With an animal in that condition, advanced mouth rot, I would eliminate the night drop altogether.

All the advice to clean this or that, or see another vet (who treats "some" visible symptoms but does not address husbandry) is worthless without proper setup and husbandry. Your snake needs ideal temps and hydration, along with a daily mouth cleaning, asap.

Ambient temps 84-86F, hot spot of 92-94F. Great tight hide spots, fresh water available at all times, and daily attention to the mouth. Get a better substrate than the reptile carpet (which harbors bacteria terrifically). Use newspaper for a snake with that type of mouth issue.

There are some terrific husbandry books available here on the classifieds from the Barker's and McCurley, I would strongly suggest getting one of those.

Best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

Thanks for your reply. We had him at the vet today and it's pneumonia. I agree about the temperature although he was in a different spot/set up when all this started. It was definitely too cold and that's why we moved. We hadn't realized how cold that room got at night.

We will soak him tonight (The gunk around his mouth is dried mucus....the mouth rot is minimal right now so hoping the right environment cleans it out)and clean his mouth a bit again. He is on Baytril now so hopefully that helps.