Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can you guys tell me, can you have 'het Extreme red albinos' ?
I thought the 'Extreme' red was a line bred trait ? how can you have hets for that ? would these just be het for red albino ?
Your thoughts please xx

They would be called red extreme het albino.

Just wondering, did you see them posted somewhere?
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!

That's an interesting question. One that would probably be best answered by Justin.

What if the snake is het for albino but never really colored up as it matured and looked like just a nice typical het for albino?
When bred to an albino would there be any Extreme Red Albinos in the clutch?

I have a bit of a dilemma with this years breeding plans. See the picture below. Two brothers, same clutch, 100% Het for Albino, but one never developed the Red coloring. Not real big males but they will breed this year. So does the normal looking male carry the gene for Red? Will he sire high Red albinos and high Red hets?
Anybody have an extra ready to breed 100% het for albno female?
LOL - just kidding

Line bred genetics are not cut and dry... The red in hognose snakes is a naturally occuring coloration that has been line bred for generations for years to make it redder...

With line breeding, the mode of inheritance is not like that of simple recessives, dominance, co-dominance, or incomplete dominance... Linebred traits are not as predictable and can throw variation...

So technically a hognose can not be het for exream red albino being that the extreme red part is not the recessive part of the genetic mix..

However if the animal is extreme red het for albino, there is a good chance you can produce extreme red albinos if bred to genetically similar animals but the chances are no where near 100% nor pradictable...

Most of these titles are just our attempt to describe the hognoses in easily understood terms, not necessarily technically correct terms. We even offer percentages in some titles, so we can try to understand the background of the hognose.

I salute those of you who work years to develop line traits, so that we may all enjoy the fruits of your endeavor.

Wendell

I completely agree with you. Sometimes when I'm on the phone with a potential buyer it can get a bit confusing.

BTW - very nice hognose. Looks similar to the younger male in my Father & Son post below.

I am going to try to answer the questions without writting a book..
There is no het for extreme red albino...just extreme red het albino. The trait is not simple recessive...nor is it simply a line trait.
As far as having predictable results...about 90-95% predictable to a degree.
Not all genetics are going to fall into a categories like recessive, codom etc.. we just don't know enough. The best I have been able to describe the trait is as being a sort of " dominant line trait" or just a super strong line trait...sorry if I don't use larger words, better decription LOL!!
It isn't strong enough by itself to produce co-dom results but it is strong enough to affect almost 100% of the hatchlings color outcome...the results depend on the parents visual quality of coloration...most of the time..and I'll explain this..
For example...
Extreme red X yellow albinos = almost all orange albino's with some red highlights.
Extreme red X orange = almost all red albino's with some really intense orange red and red orange.
Extreme red x red = 100% extreme reds
Extreme red X Extreme red = 75% extreme reds and about 25% purple extreme red

Now as John asked...will one of the babies not showing visual red still contain the gentics for red if hatched from the lineage... answer is yes, but I would never say the word het since it implies recessive.
I have kept back some females from Extreme red albino X orange and yellow het albino and bred them back to the Extreme reds and produced MUCH higher quality offspring than expected. No where near the results of a visual and the results were more in line with normal line trait outcomes..but still quite noticable influence in almost all the babies...not just some!!

Some have decribed the extreme red line as being almost hypo..like the green hypos they have now which may exhibit and reproduce itself in a similar manner...but as for the greens I have no real personal experience since I have only hatched out a few clutches of them..unlike the Extreme reds which I have worked with for several years on a larger scale. The Extremes virtually have no black on the body except for the belly which is greatly reduced compared to normals.. these are very interesting traits that I believe prove there isa little more going on besides increased red.. i.e. all those darn tigers and bandeds I keep producing from this line...the stronger the red the more of them I seem to produce..
All in all this is why there my favorite..so much color..so much potential and always new and exciting stuff comming out of the egg when they hatch..
Hope this helped!!

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Justin Mitcham
ExtremeHogs.com

I have been breeding the extreme red albinos for the past 6 to 7 years. It seems the better the red albino male you get the better the babies. I have hatched red hets that actually weren't that red and when bred back to the extreme red albino I have gotten very nice extreme red albinos. I have even called them het for extreme red albino when they really are extreme reds het for albino. I think alot of people use the term losely.

Don, That's a terrific extreme red albino. They are one of my favorites. I can't wait to see some extreme red anacondas.

Wendell

This is offspring from breeding an extreme red albino to a red het albino anaconda that came from a high orange albino female.In 2008.

The extreme line came from Don Shours line,some of the hold back hets look really nice.

We will see real soon how the extreme red albino superconda will look.

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Brent Bumgardner
bwbumgardner@aol.com
703.431.1776
Superconda Website

Brent, It's a pleasure for me to see the young from your anacondas. The possibilities are endless. I can hardly wait for the 2010 hatches.

Wendell

Thanks Wendell, here is a red anaconda het albino that I hope to breed this year that is from a red anaconda to extreme red albino breeding. He has a really darker burnt yellow as a ground color.

I like and agree with Greggs answer and would add the more we breed,inbreed,linebreed the greater diversity we'll see and feel thats a given..
Tim.
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www.serpentim.com

It was already answered in this thread that you responded to. You must have forgotten.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1721554,1721554
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!