Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In yet another attack on the reptile community, today Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar announced that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will look to list the "Big 9" from the USGS survey published in October on the Lacey Act as injurious species:

Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar today announced the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will propose to list the Burmese python and eight other large constrictor snakes that threaten the Everglades and other sensitive ecosystems as "injurious wildlife" under the Lacey Act.

Salazar made the announcement at the Port of New York, which serves as the largest point of entry in the nation for imports of wildlife and wildlife products. Last year, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Inspectors at John F. Kennedy International Airport handled more than 27, 000 separate wildlife shipments valued at more than $1 billion, or 16 percent of all U.S. wildlife imports.

The proposal, which will be open to public comment before Salazar makes a final decision, would prohibit importation and interstate transportation of the animals.

"The Burmese python and these other alien snakes are destroying some of our nation’s most treasured – and most fragile – ecosystems," Salazar said. "The Interior Department and states such as Florida are taking swift and common sense action to control and eliminate the populations of these snakes, but it is an uphill battle in ecosystems where they have no natural predators. If we are going to succeed, we must shut down the importation of the snakes and end the interstate commerce and transportation of them."

This allows us yet another opportunity to refute the bad science involved with both HR2811 and S373. The FWS will publish the proposed rule change in the federal register in early February.

Once it's published, the public will have sixty days to offer comment, after which the waiting game begins again.

As soon as the comment period opens, we'll let you know what action to take, and where.

Even now, it's not too late -- or too early! -- to make calls, reach out to your senators and representatives. Let them know this proposal is based on bad science, that you're part of the reptile community and that you vote!
USF&W to add "Big 9" to Lacey Act

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Cindy Steinle
phfaust@pethobbyist.com
PHFaust
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Being a "member of the reptile community," a veterinarian, and a Floridian for the last 7 years, I gotta chime in on this one. Without beating around the bush, I'm all in favor of restricting the importation and sale of giant constrictors. Very few private individuals have the facilities necessary to appropriately house and care for these animals when fully grown. With Burmese pythons being one of the most common and inexpensive constrictors available, far too many novice reptile owners bite off more than they can chew when purchasing that cute little juvie. Frankly, 95% or more of the people who own giant constrictors really have no business being the caretaker of an animal with the potential to grow that large. Even responsible owners sometimes have animals that manage to escape and these animals can and do wreak havoc on fragile ecosystems like the florida everglades. Granted, LOTS of other reptiles have been introduced and are flourishing and breeding in south florida. This is no less of a travesty. In the seven years that I have lived here, I have watched the native reptile populations literally disappear. You don't see the carolina anole anymore. They have been replaced by the more pugnacious and less attractive bahaman variety. Introduced species like the cuban knight anole, the haitian? curytail, the cuban treefrog, the african house gecko, and the green iguana are EVERYWHERE. With so many other more manageable, and less adaptive and destructive constrictor species available to the pet trade, an argument against such legislation simply makes no sense. I love my reptiles, but I'm a nature lover first. When pets threaten natural environments (and my sentiments extend to all pet animals not just reptiles) something needs to be done. Sorry if I've offended anyone, just couldn't leave this one alone.

I really don't even ynow where to start!!LOL
What "havoc" and been reeped by escaped pets and why is the everglades so fragile its only 8000 years old really its a mud puddle with little endemic wildlife, sure mabey a few fish but blame for there problems is vast.
The green anole is doing fine just not in so florida and again the blame is vast.
There is NOTHING "natural" about the so florida environment, so what is being threatened?
If south american indians introduced iguans in florida 1000 years ago (which they did do elsewhere)they would be the endemic state reptile today and everyone would celibrate them!
Please explain!
Rob

You said it!

I have kept herps for my entire life. This move is not an attact on people who love herps it is an effort to protect our native wildlife from extremely irresponsible people who released or didn't properly confine their pets. I hope that these people are found and severely punished for what they have done to the Everglades.

All the Lacey Act restricts is moving animals across state lines. That shouldn't affect much for the good or bad.

NOW the feds need to impose similar measures against the horticultural industry and community and the aquarium people as well.

Florida is SUCH a mess. Exotic plants and animals should all be illegal in FL as EVERYTHING can live there! Those people live in FL! What else do they want?

Why do you do any of this if you are not interested in your own native wildlife. It is ignorant comments like those that I have read here that make me agree with more restictions on the reptile keeping community. Maybe I don't want to do this anymore? I spent 8 days looking for herps in southwest FL a couple of years ago. I found lots of Anolis sageri and no native anoles.

It is very sad. People in the reptile community are not insterested in conservation.
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Brian

"The Earth was not given to you by your parents. It is loaned to you by your children."

1.0 Argentine Tegu
1.0 Bearded Dragons
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.1 Children's Python
3.5 Russian Tortoises

One would assume that "the reptile community" would consist of individuals who are inherent vivophiles. After all, being wild about those scaly critters that the majority of humankind would deem unlovable would seem to require an all-encompassing love of life in it's many forms. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case. For those of you who care more about your unfettered ability to acquire any reptile you please than you do your custodial obligations to your planet (the only one you've got).....shame on you.

I have to agree with creaturemd

I like the way no one has responded to statements only only given there emotionaly based feel good epinions. First and formost I would like to state that I am not for the berms to be in the everglades and that I am very much an environmentalist just that I base my opinions on fact and experience not on emotion or if it make me feel good.
Brian you thru out so much stuff it would take a 4 hour conversation in person to cover it all if you want to chat we can do it at daytona, but I'll comment about the things related to my first post. First off to refer to problems as all of florida is way off base almost the entire envasive problem is so florida that is below the lake. The land below the lake is a completely altered habitat and invasive reptiles are a grain of sand on a beach. Green anoles are one of the few species that are uncommon now because invasives and that is only in the south because they are more cold tollarent then the brown anoles. The brown anoles presence it not ralated to the pet trade at all they are a product of the shipping industry over the last 200 years just like rats. When a box gets shipped from the bahamas eggs and anoles are present and were unintentialy introduced and it was an inevitability with human movement. They don't have any effect on the environment because they eat the same thins and are eaten by the same things. It is 200 years to late to want to impose laws on the nursery or fish industry because it will have 0% effect now because what will go crazy already has and and now you are closing the barn door after the horses are out, but new laws would make you feel good but are a waist of energy. again it it is a south florida thing. I agree south florida is a mess but it is futile to try to "fix" it mother nature will erase all our mistakes in due time. For now lets keep it clean and watch for thing that might get out of control.
Creaturemd you did not address any of my questions please do so instead of saying I don't care about the world as long as I can aquire any animal I want.
Now as far as the statement that I don't care about native wildlife the point I was making is that almost all the wildlife in the evergaldes are animals that historicly move in and out as the water moves in and out they are not endemic animals most are gators, deer, possums, raccoons, foxes, bobcats, panthers, and birds the most common of which is the envasive cattle egret who eats native snakes, and lizards but they are protected because they are pretty.
All of south florida will be under water or high and dry and colder in the next 10,000 years or so and most of the problems we are worred about will be solved.
Florida is dealing with the problems of big snakes and passing national or other state (not in florida) laws is completely unproductive and a waist of everyones time (except those who have other agendas) and money and will have NO effect on the problems of so florida. We need to stop doing things because they are easy or they make you feel good and start doing things that will make a difference.
Again if we all want to hang out at NRBA and chat I am up for that bacause this is a long conversation and difficult to convey in writting.
Rob

It always happens after you post later you think of a few more things. LOL
The comment was made that the lacey act would be a good thing and it will only stop interstate commerse not ownership. The lacey act law is not about the big nine it is about restricting ownership and once there is presidence they will look at others and I can guaretee you within 2 years they will ask to add iguanas both green and spinny tail to the list because they are feral in florida and it will be an easy sell because the law is already in place and many people in frorida don't like them eating there non native yard plants. and while they are at it they will add cyclura also because they are a large iguana and they will say we need to stop it befor they get established, even tho we know cyclura cannot survive in a preditor rich environment you will not be able to convince them and you will scream for help from everyone an some guy keeping leopard geckos and bearded dragons will say "I think its an ok law" and you will come crying to the very people you are willing to throw under the bus now for help. Its not an issue for those of us in FL,CA,AZ we breed all the iguanas but for those of you elsewhere sorry no more rhinos or cubans or all the spinytails that are now being bred and you won't even be able to get an albino iguana no matter how cheep they are from Tom.
What will be next??
Rob

By the way I don't keep any big pythons so I am not trying to protect my intrests.
Rob

i agree with cyclura guy, i own a green iguana, a rhino iguana, and three argentine tegus all animals that will reach 4' or more 2 of which are 4'. all of them exept the green iguana were shipped from breeders in florida. now if they pass the lacey act whats to stop them from coming after larger lizards next? to everyone who keeps talking about the everglades if they were succesful in removing all the species that are non-native(highly unlikely) who is to say another specie wouldnt pop up and replace that one. i am all for protecting the environment but we need to be realistic about this; how is this law going to help south florida. i do not keep snakes either so if this law was passed i wouldnt be affected by it but as stated before its only a window of opportunity and a matter of time to move to lizards and other reptile! dont get me wrong i really enjoy nature and am all for protecting but we cant solve the problem by throwing laws at it!

You do make some valid points, however you are missing the much larger picture and agenda of what is actually in motion right now. I agree that most people do not have the proper facilities to house larger constrictors, however that is only one small piece of the puzzle. FWC is under fire from politicians like Sen. Nelson nad others every time a large constrictor is found wandering in a sub-division. It appears to the politicians that the FWC has failed miserably in regulating the exotic animal trade. The answer and agenda of the FWC is to eliminate all reptile ownership in Florida and therefore eliminate the potential for a problem, even though i think we all agreee the Burm situation was way overblown and the numbers just are not there.I do not keep large constrictors anymore , but i do keep reptiles, just like you do, and i intend to keep them in some capacity my entire life. You have to understand this is not a "large Consrictor" thing, this is a movement to stop reptile ownership, yours, mine, snakes, lizards,and maybe gecko's one day. I have direct contact with people in meetings with the FWC and they have no intentions of walking away once the large constrictors are regulated even more harshly.
I have lived in Florida my entire life and i rarely see the native lizards i used to, i realize our native animals have many challenges, but you can't blame the reptile community for everything. Fly over South Fl in a low flying aircraft and look around, we have altered the natural world forever here and it may never return. Our feral cat problem is far worse than any introduced specie of reptile will ever be. Feral cats live from one end of this state to the other killing and eating everything they can, I have a question for you? Would you support legislation barring ownership of cats and dogs, both introduced and both having negative impacts on the environment? Without them you would have no career.
I agree we have some major issues in Florida, some of which we can never change, but if we do not stick together as a reptile community, the most significant change will be to us, all our animals, will be taken away. Please keep that in mind. George

Most of you on this board have little to NO understanding of the problem here or elsewhere regarding invasives. The tip of Florida is BARELY warm enough for most of these exotic tropicals to survive and Mother Nature regulates them far better than we can. This years cold snap proved that without question. 80-90% of the Green Iguanas are gone [loathsome creatures feeding on invasive hibiscus in peoples yards]LOL. No one has even SEEN ONE PYTHON since about 10 days post freeze. Most of them are now gone as well. There never was a shred of evidence they were in fact injurious in the first place. Historically Green Anoles were never really common here because they are a TEMPERATE zone species living in the subtropics where some years spermatogenesis doesn't occur because it's NOT COLD ENOUGH. Brown Anoles just filled a niche that was there already. Coyotes have moved in replacing the native Red Wolves that used to be here. All these things from a human propspective mean little except greedy politicians ans AR groups will use any lie to force their mentality on everyone else. THIS ENTIRE STUPIDNESS IS PUSHED ALONG BY AR FANATICS WHO WILL TAKE YOUR IGUANAS AS SOON AS THEY CAN AND WILL BEGIN TO DO THAT IF THEY PREVAIL ON THIS ONE. Mark M. Ctenosaura of many species could survive in S. California and rest assured they will be next along with Cyclura which could live there as well. None of this is based on any real problem but is just a mole hill turned into a mountain for political expediancy to acheive the deep pocket lobbiest of the AR extreme right. Go ahead and believe everything you read or hear in the news as fact because after all the news wouldnt lie, would they? I live here at ground zero and actually know what the facts really are and most of you know only what you read. We are our own worst enemies to be sure and yes we are the reason many invasives are here but causing another HUGE BILLION DOLLAR plus Industry to be devastate financially will NOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM [IF THERE EVER WAS A PROBLEM] anyway. Please research your position before making kneejerk responses based on emotion and NOT facts just as Wayne Pacelle would have you do. It seems here that many of you actually have been conned by this type of radical far right AR fanatic and his brown shirt followers. If this gos through please start considering what you plan to do with YOUR herps when they come after you. I DON'T HAVE OR BREED GIANT SNAKES BTW...THANKS
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com