Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In yet another attack on the reptile community, today Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar announced that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will look to list the "Big 9" from the USGS survey published in October on the Lacey Act as injurious species:

Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar today announced the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will propose to list the Burmese python and eight other large constrictor snakes that threaten the Everglades and other sensitive ecosystems as "injurious wildlife" under the Lacey Act.

Salazar made the announcement at the Port of New York, which serves as the largest point of entry in the nation for imports of wildlife and wildlife products. Last year, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Inspectors at John F. Kennedy International Airport handled more than 27, 000 separate wildlife shipments valued at more than $1 billion, or 16 percent of all U.S. wildlife imports.

The proposal, which will be open to public comment before Salazar makes a final decision, would prohibit importation and interstate transportation of the animals.

"The Burmese python and these other alien snakes are destroying some of our nation’s most treasured – and most fragile – ecosystems," Salazar said. "The Interior Department and states such as Florida are taking swift and common sense action to control and eliminate the populations of these snakes, but it is an uphill battle in ecosystems where they have no natural predators. If we are going to succeed, we must shut down the importation of the snakes and end the interstate commerce and transportation of them."

This allows us yet another opportunity to refute the bad science involved with both HR2811 and S373. The FWS will publish the proposed rule change in the federal register in early February.

Once it's published, the public will have sixty days to offer comment, after which the waiting game begins again.

As soon as the comment period opens, we'll let you know what action to take, and where.

Even now, it's not too late -- or too early! -- to make calls, reach out to your senators and representatives. Let them know this proposal is based on bad science, that you're part of the reptile community and that you vote!
USF&W to add "Big 9" to Lacey Act

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Cindy Steinle
phfaust@pethobbyist.com
PHFaust
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Ok, I'm a big boy, I can take the hit.

I agree with the legislation. As a herper, I think it's cool that I can go west of Miami and catch a python that is not indigenous to my back yard. On the other hand, burmese breed faster than guppies - so why are we still importing them by the ton?

I am not an expert and I cannot quantify what exact impact they will have in our environments, but I know that they will have an impact. I also know that I can buy anything I want to, thanks to captive breeding programs - Hyacinth macaws, funeral cockatoos, tree pythons and boas - anything that is considered rare on this earth can be found and bought in this country.

So why the automatic knee-jerk "I don't like this bill" and grass roots defeat at all costs attitudes. I know this board is run by the INDUSTRY, but as a herper, tell me why we care about this.

Trickle down legislation.
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Todd Hughes

I can tell you why we should care. The gov. is taking away our freedoms one at a time. You see what they did to us in Texas. Florida has a problem with ferrel pythons in the everglades. This is a Florida problem which the gov is making all of our problem. This problem will not spread out of Fla because of habitat fragmentation alone. Not to mention climate and other factors. The same reason large native snakes in Fla. are on the decline. Indigos and eastern diamonbacks need large home ranges and in a fragmented enviornment the large snakes are killed when they cross paths with people or when they try to cross roadways. The pythons will not spread out of Florida. So this is a Florida problem. Yet the gov wants to stop importation of burmese pythons and 8 other large snakes including boas , not only in Fla. but the whole country. This would be a Federal law making transporting any of these 9 large snakes across any state line a violation of the Lacey Act, a Federal offense. Now many of us sell snakes on the internet and ship snakes around the country. This will put alot of breeders and dealers out of business.
Now... why should you care? Because the gov will eventually get around to banning something you care about. The Gov likes to divide and conquer. This is why we all need to stick together.

The government did ban something I care about - road hunting in Texas. But you know what, we still hunt within law, and bottom line we still get to enjoy our hobby. One day it might change, maybe not. I personally try to work within the law.

If you want a ball python, you don't have to import them - all you have to do go to craigslist in any given city and they are giving them away. You can even find the darn things in pet shelters. We import way too many pythons.

They killed imports on aves a long time ago, and we still can buy cockatoos, african grey, macaws and amazons. If that law did anything, it put some quarantine stations out of business and gave some much needed relief to the wildlife populations.

It's always the first piece of any given legislation that will eventually erode and take away all of my personal freedoms and liberties. I've been hearing that all of my life, and I am still free. If I want a python, I'll go to a show and buy one from a breeder. Maybe all of those wholesalers will look at it as an opportunity, start breeding.

well, just don't try and bring it with you if you move, you'd like to take the graybands if you moved, wouldn't you? Be a shame to have to give up something you love to do, remember when we thought they wouldn't pull off a roadban? When it does get you where it counts, then you'll care, but you won't find sympathetic ears if we don't stick together on this and all legislation concerning our hobbies and personal freedoms.

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Todd Hughes

The interstate portion of the bill is for purpose of commerce, not because speckles is coming with you.

>>The interstate portion of the bill is for purpose of commerce, not because speckles is coming with you.

Interstate means interestate. Commerce, vet care, educational programs, relocation, everything. Forbidden interstate travel does not matter when it comes to the reason.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
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Niiiiice snake, BTW.

The GOVT will just use other countries as examples as to why we shouldn't be allowed to transport or sell the snakes. The fact that these "other countries" are not democratic never even enters the discussion. (Example Australia)

Many of our freedoms are taken away under the "Better Safe Than Free" act we all passed. When did we pass this you ask? Simple, While we were all watching AMERICAN IDOL.

So please... Sit Back... Relax.... I hear SURVIVOR is on soon. And they are in a tropical location this season. Who knows, we may even get to see a snake on TV.

They are in Guam, at least that's where the helicopters that dropped them off are from.

maybe they can eradicate the brown Tree snake, lol! Vote them off the island.
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Todd Hughes

>>maybe they can eradicate the brown Tree snake, lol! Vote them off the island.
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>>Todd Hughes
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Ball pythons are not included in this ban but they were included in a previous, very similar bill that attempted to ban the import and interstate transport of all pythons. Public response caused that bill to die but it was follwed by the current proposal regarding the "big 9", which I think is not as bad but still not very good. The point here is that protest forced the creation of a new version that is better.

I am not against regulating the hobby, whether it be to protect the public, the environment or populations of wild herps. I just think there have been too many times where the laws marginalize hobbyists. I think the python issue is the biggest yet, in terms of the numbers of hobbyists this will impact. Because of the huge numbers of hobbyists that will be affected there is no better time than now to start requiring our legislators come up with better laws. If we don't do it now the hobby is just going to be that much weaker when we loose the python people. I want to stress that I am not saying no regulations are needed but they should be better ones.

I don't want giant or potentially invasive species in the hands of unqualified persons either, in areas where they present a real danger but I think there are more reasonable and effective ways to accomplish this than the current proposal.

I don't own, or plan to own, any of these snakes but what I get from this law is an 'oh crap they are doing it again' feeling. Which is to say I feel like they are taking a legitamate problem and trying to solve it with a bad law and in the process totally ingoring the herp keeping community.

I don't worry about pythons, I worry about taipans biting a pregnant mother of three after a hurricane.

LOL. I worry about boaters being attacked by African Clawed Frogs after an earthquake but niether is covered under the big 9.

I couldn't have said it better myself Tom. I have such strong feelings on this subject that the kingsnake police would lock me up if I were to really state in blatent words how i really feel!, so..............I guess I will lay low for now, but everyone that knows me, is aware of my views about this! And they wonder why people fly planes into Government buildings???? No I am not saying I condone it,.........I am just saying the government better take heed to the way people feel about matters such as this, and the overall way this country is being run, or the lack of. The opression is becoming unbearable and now we are seeing the repercussions of such idiocracy that our "elected officials" put on the common people. I am just saying that all of this nonsense should be a wake up call. Evidentally, it is not penetrating through the thick skulls in Washington !

>>I couldn't have said it better myself Tom. I have such strong feelings on this subject that the kingsnake police would lock me up if I were to really state in blatent words how i really feel!, so..............

Dont cuss, dont call people names, and go nuts.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

You know, I've fought this with letters, emails, calls till I'm getting blisters on my typing fingers! But I admit I see your point. Just why do we still import so much? It definitely isn't necessary-just look at the aviculture hobby, almost 20 years after importation ended, and they are still going strong. I frankly think it hurts our credibility, and definitely hurts the market for captive bred reptiles.

Maybe we should be proactive and come forward with a legislative agenda that is a win-win, one that will help the domestic herp market and defuse this pressure for more and more restrictions on our hobby.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

I don't think we need to import any of the big 9 with all the breeding stock here already. I am not against regulating the dangerous animals although the big 9 list has animals such as the boa and others that should not be lumped in with the really big animals. I am against this Florida problem causing the whole nation to suffer. I use to live in Florida and I can tell you there are parrots, monkeys , lizards and plenty of other non natives loose down there. You can go fishing for bass and catch more oscars. What about ferrel hogs, dogs and cats! I think Florida has to clean up it's act without dragging the rest of the nation down with it.

AGREED, but all bureaucrats do is "F" things up because most have no brain. It's all about the money and who can take care of them. No matter how hard we fight, we will as a group, never have the money to change their minds. Just the way I feel. It very much is a FLORIDA problem so they as a state need to deal with this issue, not screw the whole nation.

No cash = No Voice

Well said Brad, however, just what may that be???? The "gorilla" gets his finger in the door and nothing but bad always happened!!! It just doesn't work bubba! It would be like getting the fox to guard the hen house.

I agree Wayne-the record is not good-but given that public (and thus institutional) pressure has reached the crescendo it has, I guess I'm just looking for something that will "defuse the bomb" - before it takes us all out.....

If we could just remove the invasive argument, or most of it, by curtailing imports, then HSUS and PETA etc would be left with just their weak (in most folk's minds) cruelty and health objections.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

"If we could just remove the invasive argument, or most of it, by curtailing imports, then HSUS and PETA etc would be left with just their weak (in most folk's minds) cruelty and health objections."

Perfectly stated.

I think the key is not the issue but the fact that we..... and I mean all reptile and amphibian enthusiast , must band together so that we have the numbers to demand respect when fighting unjust Laws/Bills. USARK is just such an organization with growing numbers and support. Everyone needs to help when the government picks on one of our smaller groups. Then when the government picks on your special interest you can count on support from all the rest of us.