Reptile & Amphibian Forums

100 plus pound 15 ft Burm has a possible respiratory infection. Due to her size and temperament, I don’t think I can physically get pills into her. What are the ideal husbandry parameters to help her environmentally… temperature, humidity? I’m considering injectable antibiotics, but I’m concerned about causing more problems than I fix. Is there any clever way of getting medicine into her short of hog-tying her and cramming them down her throat?
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Spider

Hi!
What symptoms are you seeing? Is the snake still eating regularly?

Treating an upper respiratory infection with pills isn't the way to go; that is, unless something new has hit the market that I'm unaware of. I strongly suggest treating mild cases by increasing cage temperature & humidity level. If a snake is hackin' up phlegm, then I don't consider it to be a mild case of respiratory infection.

Injectable antibiotics, if the correct dosage is administered correctly, are routine & safe.

To deal with it "naturally" see the post linked below.
forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1721213,1721220

Hang in there!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

I am a little confused, i have recieved email that all say to raise temps butthen 50% say lower humidity and 50% say raise humidity. She isnt eating at the moment. She isnt caughing up stuff but i can hear the phlemy sounds that accompany an ri.Any info would be appreciated.
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Spider

"50% say lower humidity and 50% say raise humidity"

It's been that way for years.

I've done it both ways and have had better results by increasing humidity. The reason I say to increase it is to keep the phlegm from drying out and make it easier to cough it up should it come to that. I believe it's usually low humidity along with low temps that cause URIs.

Not knockin' anyone, but, I don't understand the philosophy behind lowering humidity levels below a Burm's natural range to treat an URI.

Question: Is it recommended to use a humidifier or vaporizer when we humans get a cold, respiratory infection, sinus problems, or is it recommended that we breathe hot, dry air?

I am NOT trying to be a smart a--. Honestly. Just invoking thought.

How long has it been since she last ate? You might want to consider antibiotics. Speakin' of which - I flat out goofed in my earlier reply. The Cipro that Kelly mentioned definitely isn't new to the market, I just flat out forgot about it because you don't hear much about it being used. Dang! I reckon I'm no expert then. (Never claimed to be.)

I hope she recovers soon. Hang in there!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

The first most important point is that you should never lower the humidity on a TROPICAL boa or python that has an RI. I realize that some will disagree with that statement, but I have studied RI in tropical boids for over 20 years, and spoken with numerous vets specializing in this area, and everything points to the same conclusion. When the humidity is too low, the lung surface tissue dries to the point that it becomes irritated and damaged and allows the normal bacterial flora in the environment access for invasion of this tissue causing an RI, or aggravation of an existing RI. With a higher relative humidity, this extra moisture in the air helps maintain the moisture balance at the lung surface, allowing the pythons immune system to operate more efficiently at the surface of the lung tissue and the site of the majority of the infection where most of the invasive bacteria are located. This moist tissue at the lung surface also allows any antibiotic that maybe used less restricted access to this surface tissue as well. Some think that lowering the humidity will deprive the causative bacteria of a suitable environment for sustainability on the lung surface. The fact is, you will never be able to lower the humidity to the point that you are in any way affecting the survivability of the bacterial species that are causing the infection. Even lowering the humidity for a few days initially is going to cause a significant setback in the recovery from any RI. The humidity needs to remain at least in the 70 to 75% range for the duration of any type of treatment.

As long as the environment is clean, for high humidity to be a negative respiratory issue, it would need to remain well above 85% for an extended period with the majority of python species. In the many times that I have used maternal incubation with tropical pythons, I have never had any respiratory issues, and I never allow the ambient humidity to drop below 90% over the entire 2 month incubation period with ambient temps in the mid-80’s. If high humidity alone were a significant health issue, at least some of these females would have shown some aspect of respiratory distress.

In some cases, antibiotic use can be avoided if the condition is caught in the early stages. In the very initial stages of an RI, or the similar symptoms caused by lung irritation caused by low humidity, the condition can usually be reversed by simply raising the humidity. The problem is that this turns into more of an issue when you start raising temps to assist RI treatment, especially with low room humidity in the winter. Warm cage interiors rapidly drive humidity out into the low humidity room, and can quickly lower humidity levels within the cage. For this reason, ambient humidity levels need to be watched even more closely during the winter months. I firmly believe that sub-optimal humidity levels cause as many respiratory issues with tropical boas and pythons as does sub-optimal temps.

Kelly

Kelly,
I just want to make sure that you didn't misinterpret what I said about Cipro - "The Cipro that Kelly mentioned definitely isn't new to the market, I just flat out forgot about it because you don't hear much about it being used."

What I mean is it seems that most people on forums are reporting that their Vet prescribed Baytril injection. I wasn't doubting or refuting what you said about Cipro - not at all.

Later!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

No issue at all, I definitely knew where you were going. Vets rarely prescribe Cipro over Baytril because they typically don't carry or stock strictly human antibiotics. They are usually going to use what they have on hand. They can easily write a prescription for the local pharmacy, but that is an extra step in the process, and the human antibiotics are typically more expensive and some vets are not as familiar with them.
Thanks Mike,

Kelly

I definitely agree with HH in that manipulation of environmental parameters is the best, first choice when attempting to treat RI's in pythons. As he stated, keep temps in the low 90's 24/7 and humidity at least 75% in my opinion. However, if this fails to show any improvement at all within a week, you need to consider an antibiotic regime.

There are numerous injectable antibiotics, but one outstanding tablet form is Cipro, or ciprofloxacin. It is a fluoroquinolone class antibiotic as is Baytril, but superior in spectrum of activity. I have seen it used successfully to treat RI in pythons on numerous occasions. Vets usually will not have it, but they can write a prescription for it. A snake that size would need a 750 to 1,000 mg dose every 48 hours, and always use under vet supervision. If she is feeding, the tablets can be placed under the skin or within the mouth of the smallest feeder animal that you can get her to eat. The less food mass in her stomach, the more effective the absorption of the antibiotic. If she will not feed, you will obviously then need to go with an injectable. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Kelly

From my experience, Baytril injected seems to irritate the animal a bit, and as Kelly says, is every 48 hrs. Amikacin (sp?) is a bit easier and every 72 hours, but you need a culture at your vet's, first.