Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The hognose scene is very nasty right now, I'm actually glad I bailed ship last year.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1780748,1780748

Excited for a 2010 year!?

Luc

I don't get it? How is that nasty?

~ Mike Russo

Did you read the thread?

It seems like there is quite a few feuds going on there. It ruins the entire thing. I used to have hogs. most of the time when I would talk to someone about how their hogs were and what they had plans on producing they would go off on a rant of how "this person did this to me..he's a total A-hole bla bla bla..."

I didn't realize that the thread got that out of hand... But, I just read the whole silly/crazy thread... sorry

~ Mike Russo

A couple guys on there have issues with each other that go WAY back, and a lot of those new to the forum get sucked into it. It's a shame, but part of the nature of these forums, IMO.

I love hogs and kings equally, and love these forums-for I remember the decades before the internet when herp club meetings and the rare expo were our only chance to talk herps!

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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

haha I was wondering if you were just totally immune or something. I also love hogs. The hatchlings are fantastic and they grow so fast and can really do well in captivity.

It's just that sh*t on the forum that destroys the herpetoculture progression. The greed, the money and the cut throat of it all disgusts me. On a public forum to boot!

Anyway, I guess you just have to move past it...

Actually I don't think the hognose scene is nasty. What is nasty that any know nothing can post any drivel they want on the internet without even producing a single hognose. Basically that is what the thread is abaout. it is people attacking a hognose breeder for producing too many hogoses. They say he is going to flood the market (What?). This is said to a guy who keeps his prices higher than anyone. Totally ridiculous thread and IMO is people that don't breed hognoses jealous of one person who does.

If you can't see that I don't know what to say. It certainly does not effect the market nor the animals care nor any other nonsense implied by the trolls.. Stupid thread and IT ACTUALLY MAKES ME WANT TO GET INTO HOGNOSES and out of posting on forums.

It is sad that a person who has worked hard over many years to have a shadow like this cast on his work. I hope that folks get into hognoses now just to do the right thing. And that is not get effected by a couple morons who should be banned from ever posting on KS again.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Some people on the forums have personal issues with one another. Also some people just have issues! LOL
Then sometimes we get to discussing things like about how we believe the science of snakes works and so on and this is like discussing religion or politics in many ways. People take it personal when you do not think and believe the way they do.
Then some to ad to this have to make comments in the effect of that you are an idiot if you do not believe and think the way they do. This tends to be less mature and never is productive.
It is OK to put a theory up here and for people to pick it apart and or test it out with what they think may be different. This is just good healthy debate and is good to help get to the bottom of a truth. If we do not let this happen then we would just live in a bubble and think with our heads up our back side.
Sure I get my feathers ruffled once in a while. But at the end of the day I still respect these guys on this forum and also learn by it. I am not a getula expert per say by any means. I specialize in Box turtles, corns & emory and there ilk, as well as long nosed snakes. I know a lot about getula but not everything and this is why I am on this forum. It is OK to test others on what they think as well. How else can you see how solid there information is? I don't believe in giving people a free pass and except all they tell me because they are one of the elite experts. I know I sure don't get any free passes even on what I do know.

As for the comment about some people should not be allowed to post on the forums. Maybe to some extent that could be true. But the thing is there have always been conflicting points of view. who gets to decide what group/click is the expert or right ones to post and who gets pushed out of this forum?
That could end up being a little elitist and again we end up allowing some to live in there bubble.
Now, I am not saying some do not cross some lines in there posting. I am just saying thinking we need to keep certain people from posting could end up being a bad thing that could also get out of hand as well.
I think for the most part if someone really crosses that line they can and sometimes have been banned from posting in kingsnake forums as is.

As for the guy getting flack about producing too many hog nosed snakes, all I can say it he has a right to produce whatever he wants. The prices of hognose are way up there and there is plenty of room for more in the market. I do not think it is greedy to produce more since more will help drop the price. If anything it is greedy to want to produce less to keep the prices high.
Anyway I do not know what all personal things those guys have going on and don't want in it. But I think if a person does the work and produces a bunch of hogs then so be it. I don't see anything unethical about that.
Funny how it is such a trend now to slam people by calling them unethical when ever they do something you don't like even when ethics has nothing to do with it.

In the end all I can say is you just have to sometimes brush it off and move on. There is some negative here on forums but there is a lot of good here too. Don't let anyone spoil it for you.
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Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~

This is just good healthy debate and is good to help get to the bottom of a truth. If we do not let this happen then we would just live in a bubble and think with our heads up our back side.

To say that the breeder is to high a price and he can't sell his babies an therefore thy are being wasted or tortured is not even close to a debate or different veiw point. It is TROLLING. You do know what trolling means? Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on message boards. When done in a moderated internet community, this should result in banning.

It is obvious to me it is about former fueds that brought these lame accusation about. It is all about hate and revenge for whatever pathetic reason.

That is why i stand by that these trolls should be moderated and banned. They tried to get a rise out of the breeder. Forcing him to respond to them, either through wise-crackery, posting incorrect information, asking blatantly stupid questions, or other foolishness. Trolling statements are never true or are ever meant to be construed as such.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

The statement you are talking about that I made was not intended for the hognose post. It was a general statement about some forum post on here.
I was trying to point out a difference between healthy debate and the hog nose post. I failed! LOL
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Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~

Some people cant tell the difference between opinion and truth.

Everyone believes there opinion is the truth. Otherwise it would not be there opinion. My post did not take stabs at anyone or at least it was not intended to. Most of what I was saying is we can debate things without it having to get so personal. But even that got taken personal I see.

If the guy breeds too many hog nose he will have trouble selling them and get stuck keeping them so he will learn the hard way' if what he is doing is wrong. And if he doesn't take good care of them well there are laws about that. That situation will in the end fix itself more or less. I don't know or care who was right or wrong about that thread that is for those guys to hash out. The point being made here was more just about people hollering they have a right or reason to breed there snakes there way but then jump on others and criticize them. It would be better and people could get along better if people just let it go and except the fact that you can't make someone else do it your way.

Some people on here think maybe you guys do not have the right breeding ethics. You would tell them it is your right to breed your snakes your way though right? So all I meant by saying if that guy wants to breed a lot of hogs then let him. If you can't have a more live and let live mentality then you are doing the very thing you don't like others to do to you.

I really do not see how a more laid back post that is more or less just saying for people to get along gets people jumping in on the person posting it.

Some people decide they just have something against someone and decide they have to take a swipe at them about everything.

Going after someone is not setting the example of a person that is right and full of truth. It just looks like people to single certain people out and talk smack to them.

All I am saying is wouldn't it be better to maybe try getting along and maybe just having a little more respect for one another. Or is talking crap your best feature?

A big part of why the world we live in has gone down the toilet is people have no respect for one another and think only there opinion is the truth.

Can't we all just get along?
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Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~

If the guy breeds too many hog nose he will have trouble selling them and get stuck keeping them so he will learn the hard way' if what he is doing is wrong. And if he doesn't take good care of them well there are laws about that. That situation will in the end fix itself more or less. I don't know or care who was right or wrong about that thread

That was a trolling post and only the naive person like yourself who has no experience breeding and making a living off off reptiles actually buys into.

What these people were hoping others would buy into is exactly the remarks you just made above. They are preying on people like yourselve to ruin the reputation of a well known breeder and someone who males a living and feeds his family from breeding. they are probably laughing at their evil selves that this is continued in another forum and gets the attention it does.

in one short sentence they accuse him of asking too much for his hognoses and then say he can't sell them all.

Let me ask you this. What does a breeder do when he sells out of stock in a couple months? That is the assumption here. That we must sell all of our stock in two months or less or you will fail? Some people like yourselve, beleive this and blow out prices because they get nervous that they can't sell the stock. Imagine if a store front owner worked selling only two months out of the year.

Bottom line is larger breeders don't sell out stock and intentionally do not want to after 2-3 months. it is about keeping the prices steady and NOT SCREWING YOUR CUSTOMERS you just sold to. Imagine if i old a snake to you for $200. and you find out a few weeks later i am blowing them out at $50. How would you feel? It would surely ruin the market for that aprticular snake morph/spp as well for any future sales.

Another thing is snakes that have fed for awhile and are well started do sell better later. this especially is true of hognoses, Mtn kings and other typical hard to get started species. It is smart and benificial for the savy customer to wait until winter or spring for such purchases.

What this breeder is doing is NORMAL. And EXPECTED. He is a good guy and then he has to come out and defend the weak minded to this very dribble posted on a forum. The proof is there that his business is effected by these ridiculous and pathetic accusing trolls- And you fed right into it!
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Kills trolls dead!

Right on point mate.......just like what ol' Thomas Dungbeetle is trying to pull with me down below entitled "interesting". Funny how no one notices this....but it's all good. I just laugh it off.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

That or get out the extra strength troll spray? LOL!

Scott

somehow I knew that was coming.....LOL!!!!!!!
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

I couldn't help it..LOL! They are the kings of the mountains!

Scott

Mmmmm, wonder if they have it in gallons?

Scott

There is always always another option. Just don't click on the persons posts and respond to it. That thread I started to get a friendly vibe going and chat. It turned it something crazy. A lot more "debates" go on in this forum than any other I've seen. It all gets very childish and people should ignore garbage and just not read it.
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!

herper's willingness to argue is inversely proportional to the temperatures outside.
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx