Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If a small group of us got together and tried to map out the history of the animals we have now we could establish some what of a pedigree this would work fine for cubans and rhinos we then make up a regestry paper like a stud book and name number and pit tag all animals that are "certified" now when you sell one people get a certificate with it and they know who the parents are and possibly more info they pay $30 for the certificate and that goes to the "club" for the cost of the pit tag and and keeping the records. duplicate coppies of the records would be kept at several group members houses for backups. The regestry would only be available to be used by members and membership would only be by a recomendation from a upper level member so as to ensure the members are established breeders that have been inspected and vetted and will follow our guidelines like the aza does now for zoos the be acredited.
This could also be done for the few caymaninsis that are out there now and all Possibles out there would have to be DNA tested befor they would be certified.
For "american lewisi"(tm) we would have to go with the best info we have at hand. It could be done like the Poltry association does it with chickens where it is a flock improvement plan. We register all our animals like above and follow an improvement plan by only breeding the best colored and true to standard animals for our "american Lewisi"(tm). As pure ones become available we could use them to improve our "American lewisi"(tm) as well as establish a regestry for pures just like the caymaninsis.
I know this sounds like a complicated thing but it has to start somewhere and with a possible future of islands with cyclura dissapearing underwater if we show we can ensure a lineage we may someday be able to get other animals that are now unavailable.
we could also do this for ctenosaurus as amny of us keep both.
the CCBA = Cyclura and Ctenosaura breeders association or guild or group or consortiom or society.
Rob

I would buy a 3rd or 4th gen "American Lewisi"; the result of meticulous "bluing". As JF said in some other post, the amount of blue is what makes a Lewisi valuable to the non-breeder clientele.
Would you rather have a "verified" 85% lewisi, or one or more dubious heritage that is markedly bluer? Yes, there are some who would go for the verified heritage; but imagine two booths at a reptile show and ask yourself who would get the more attention. The really blue Lewisi looking cyclura or the verified brown ones.

Well,you can argue that the amount of blue comes with the amount of lewisi part of the mix. Another wrinkle is really blue with cuban or not as blue but with caymanensis, with this one the head shape is closer to lewisi. ????? I guess it comes down to what the buyer likes.

jf

I think what was getting at was dubious versus verified. It would make sense that the bluest ones would be most Lewisi, but in the end, most will go (as you said) with bluer.

The idea would be if it was not blue it would not meet the standard of the "american lewisi" so it would not be allowed to be registered. Someone who is selectively breeding lewisi now would be someone who would want to be in the group and over time a registered animal is usualy prefered over a non registered animal even for the novice pet owner and the prices and desire to get animals from certain breeders is still the same. Look at dogs there are registered and non and amongst the registered ones people still select by a breeders reputation and the quality of the animals they breed.
Rob

JF is right, if the animal is real blue, and looks pure, then that is probably a high percentage animal or even a non DNA tested pure. The problem comes when one is buying babies. Baby lewisi, caymanensis, nubila look very similar up to the first six months, and then the differences after that are subtle. If one were to breed American lewisi's, the breeders would need some kind of pedigree or papers and pics of the adults (not just the male like everyone does, but both male and female). The buyer would have to trust that the breeder is actually selling babies from the registered lizards. It is not infallible, but neither is the AKC (american kennel club) system, but its the best we can do.

there is more to Lewisi than color. Head shape is the obvious one. How red the eyes are is another. not many hybrids have the same intensity in my experience. Cheverons? There will have to be a consensus of what the Amer. lewisi is and what the acceptable characteristics are. A really blue cyclura with a "cuban head" wouldn't cut it for me.
My questions are not meant to be throwing stones, I would support this, but there are lots of ?'s it brings up.

jf

I'm in total agreement. Just like acceptable characteristics in dog breeds (and I feel funny always using the dog breed analogy because all breeds are the same species but it kinda gets the point across) there should be some standard for the American lewisi including head shape, color, ect.