Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click for ZooMed
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

USGS responds to letter

Jonathan_Brady Jan 26, 2010 06:33 PM

Linked below is a response from Dr. Susan Haseltine, the Associate Director for Biology at U.S. Geological Survey. She asked NatGeo to post her response to the letter written by the independent panel of scientists who wrote in response to the second USGS study about the "9 constrictors".

Just so we're clear, this isn't NatGeo, this is the USGS responding through NatGeo's website.

Take a peek at her response, and leave your comments if you so choose. I did Try to be polite if you can...

jb
USGS defends study that suggests U.S. climate may become accommodating to giant alien snakes

-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Replies (13)

BrandonSander Jan 26, 2010 08:59 PM

Jonathan, your response to her defense was absolutely incredible! You covered quite a bit of history and revealed what is most likely a huge part of the "hidden agenda" driving this bill. There was quite a bit of information I was completely unaware of and while it does seem to stem from the "conspiracy theory" side of things it not only makes perfect sense, but is also completely believable.

Thank you very much for exposing this and (hopefully) educating a few more people about what is really going on. HSUS may be publicly backing this bill, but it would appear that they also have the State of Florida's bank accounts (discreetly) applauding their efforts.

For anyone who hasn't clicked over to this link... it's a must read!

boldboas Jan 26, 2010 09:50 PM

Very, Very well put......awesome job JB
-----
Kevin Stewart

boldboas.com

LarM Jan 26, 2010 11:24 PM

JB great job thankyou , you knocked it out of the park !!

I hope everyone reads your contribution ,

its extremely enlighting !!

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

forest Jan 27, 2010 06:22 AM

Larry, Johnathon and your letters would be awesome in the larger newspapers across the US. You should definetly present them at the summit in Tinley. I will be in New York that weekend honoring my mother at the Westminister dog show. This Python ban and the corruptive governmental agencies involved should be exposed on a national unbiased forum such as 60 minutes or dateline. Paul.
-----
Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

tat2darin Jan 27, 2010 01:25 AM

That was an awesome response JB. Mail that to every senator, wait they already know all that... if we could only get that letter to ALL the public!!
-----
06
0.2 h albino
07
0.1 dh snow
0.2 leticia
1.1 triple het
0.1 albino h snow
08
2.1 hypo hog
0.1 sunset
1.0 ghost
0.1 arabesque dh stripe alb
1.1 h type 2 anery
0.1 pastel motley
0.1 leticia
1.0 hypo ph bloody sharp
0.2 ph bloody sharp
1.0 h blood
0.1 sunglow poss super
1.2 anery h snow
0.2 albino h snow
1.1 50% guyana h albino
0.1 triple het
0.1 ghost h albino
1.0 jungle h anery ph albino
0.1 pastel het albino
09
1.1 dh blizzard
0.1 h albino
0.1 jungle h albino
1.0 motley h albino ph snow
1.0 albino h snow
1.0 anery h snow
1.1 hypo dh stripe albino
and 25 balls

hiss_n_herps Jan 27, 2010 05:43 AM

Well done JB. Send that response to Obama if it gets that far so he can see the corruption within his own national organization. He is after all in charge of our country now right.

What I find to be the oddest thing of all is that we have been disputing the USGS survey for some time now on the premise that we know what climate conditions these snakes need to survive and I think that as the reptile community goes, we have first hand knowledge and evidence through our husbandry efforts for the last 45 years of what is required to keep constrictor snakes healthy. What I still don't understand is why have we not refuted this 100 year policy that the USGS and FWS has signed up to. They are trying to 1) make the general public believe that the proposed climate change WILL absolutely without a doubt happen in the next 100 years and 2) they are trying to cite that these constrictors are without a doubt MIGRATORY ANIMALS.

The USGS and FWS has also seemingly scientifically stated as irrefutable fact that as the climate change pushes further north, these animals will push further north in hand with that change. Furthermore, they are implying to the public that as these changes occur these snakes will usher themselves across the country, in viable breeding groups in such a manner that they are evidently capable populating throughout the entire United States. If this were true, then the populations of Sonora Boa Constrictors should evidently have already overtaken most of the lower western states since they were endemic to that area and climate for the last several hundred years. Oh. There’s my real point of my argument. The Burmese, Rocks, Retics, Anacondas and Red Tail Boas have been in a constant state in the areas they currently inhabit for how many years now? 10? 20? 100 years? Of course not. These animals have gone through species evolution for thousands of years to the point that they were probably in stasis populations in the wild with other predatory animals for hundreds of years now. This would have been far longer than the population of man expounded and we humans began to invade their naturally distributed territories.

My point here is that these snakes are not migratory animals. Boas and Pythons do not travel in packs like Wolves or Lions from one location to another where there is a hierarchal dominant male and his hoard of harem females that stay with him for food and protection. If multiple constrictors were to be released at the exact same time and at the exact same location, they would not follow each other in a straight line like nomadic tribesmen. These animals are going to separate from each other, they are going to travel in opposite direction and they are going to find their own location to inhabit where they may never come in contact with another animal of their own or a closely related species. We also know that in areas where Boas and Pythons naturally come in contact with species of crocodilians, there has become a stasis in the populations of both animals as they both have the propensity to consume each other and do so from time to time. This should be very evident from areas of the Amazon where both Anacondas and Caiman are found in the same localities as well in areas of Africa where Crocs and Rock pythons inhabit the same areas.

Personally, I would go on record as saying that constrictors did not populate the surface of the earth overnight. They surely did not move in such numbers to be capable of inhabiting there natural ranges over the last 100 years in the numbers that they are currently found in the wild. There is now way SCIENTIFICALLY OR STATISTICALLY that the USGS, WFS or Senator Nelson can prove that these animals will populate the areas of the United States in the numbers that they are stating and in the timeframe that they are stating. I know that and all of you reading this know that to be a fact. Unfortunately, the general population does not know this and Senator Nelson is banking on it. Could large constrictors populate some areas in limited numbers in different areas of the United States? I’m sure that they might be able to until they are noticed by the human population and hunted down and destroyed like what is being done in ENP. This needs to be conveyed somehow to the entire US general populous.

The death of a young child by a pet constrictor snake was a tragic event that never should have happened. There’s no doubt about that. However, I see no difference between that event and the countless numbers of persons that are either killed or mauled by dogs each year. Obviously there are people out there that should never be allowed to own either of these animals. No matter what the outcome of the current and or future proposed bills, we need to become more proactive in our hobby. We may need to impose our own regulations regarding “Safe and Smart” Husbandry Practices. I will probably never breed Burms, Retics, Rocks or Anacondas but if I were in the business of doing so, I would surely police my future clients for their abilities to keep such animals and even turn away some or at least work with them until they understood what they were getting into. I do breed Red Tails, Carpet Pythons and Balls.

To my knowledge, I have never been to a Pet Store (other than ones that I have worked for) or Reptile Swap meet where I have seen the Breeders, Brokers or Sellers of any constrictor snakes turn away any person because they were either too young to understand or just didn’t appear to have the mental aptitude to know what is required to safely keep and maintain these animals for the rest of their natural life. I wish that there was a test that people had to take prior to owning such animals that could somehow single out those people that should not own them.

As a side note, I was selling animals a few weeks back at a local swap meet. I have been trying to sell my Granite Burm off and on for the last two years now. I had to turn away a patron that wanted to pet my Burm. My Burm is quite manageable and I even had him out several times that day for customers that were interested in purchasing him. But, I turned away this particular patron because it was a young boy and his friend. Just before they walked up to my table I noticed that one of them had a small live rat sitting on his head. I also noticed that the boy that wanted to pet my snake had picked the rat up and placed it back on his friends head. After having this Burm for the past 4 years, I know his feeding response and his enthusiasm with which he feeds. This was a situation that I just wasn’t going to allow to happen, especially with all of the media sensationalism recently. What an incident that could have turned into.

I also have a 4 year old son that I am teaching the importance of being careful around these large pets.

Chris
Fort Wayne, Indiana

natsamjosh Jan 27, 2010 06:31 AM

>>
>>Take a peek at her response, and leave your comments if you so choose. I did Try to be polite if you can...
>>
>>jb
>>USGS defends study that suggests U.S. climate may become accommodating to giant alien snakes
>>

Great responses by both Larry and Jonathan, hopefully some reasonable, non-herp people will read them. Did anyone else try to make a comment? I spent 20 minutes last night writing up a response, but so far my reply hasn't appeared. And no other comments have been posted either since last night.

LarM Jan 27, 2010 01:34 PM

natsamjosh did you register for a username and sign in ?

I was already registered and signed in made my comment hit enter and nothing.

Luckily I've learned over time to save important posts like that
It took me about an hour and a half to arrange some scattered thoughts ,
write it down and then do a quick proof read. (didn't do a very good job on that proof read , ha ha)

I should have spent more time , but there are things to do.
Anyways I had to sign back in and repost

Jb's statement blew mine away , it was eloquent and full of information

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Jonathan_Brady Jan 27, 2010 02:06 PM

I always save a copy of any post longer than a few sentences. In fact, many of them I write in ms word as they're easier to edit. It's saved me on numerous occasions.

I've been wondering if I used up all the reply space with my long @$$ rebuttal! lol

jb
-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

natsamjosh Jan 27, 2010 05:46 PM

Same thing happened to me. I logged in again this morning and responded again, this time it worked. Go figure.

Thanks,
Ed

LarM Jan 27, 2010 06:09 PM

Let me guess "Eddie Indigo" ?

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

natsamjosh Jan 27, 2010 07:43 PM

>>Let me guess "Eddie Indigo" ?
>>
>>
>> . . . Lar M
>>-----
>>Boas By Klevitz
>>
>>
>>I Support USark.org

How did you guess?

BROWNSBOAS Jan 27, 2010 12:38 PM

You guys are awesome! I really appreciate you guys supporting the hobby/biz I love!!!!!

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

Site Tools