Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some pics of the Cudjoe Key rosy rats that I recieved from KeysReptiles. I had a rosy when I was kid and been wanting a couple more ever since.

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Matt Kauffman

Those are beautiful.

Hey, Matt. I got a pair of those, too. Cute little guys, huh? Are yours as wild as mine are? Mine really don't want to be handled at all. I think they have about stopped biting finally. LOL!

Amy C.
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Amy Claiborne

'A government big enough to give you everything...is a government big enough to take it all away.'

I just got them yesterday,so I haven't handled them to much,but they didn't bite. They didn't seem to enjoy being handled though, but that's to be expected from hatchling rat/corn snakes. They are definitely the smallest snakes in my collection. My intermontane hatchlings(emoryi) were much larger when I got them. Yeah, they are cute.

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Matt Kauffman

>>My intermontane hatchlings(emoryi) were much larger when I got them. Yeah, they are cute.
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>>Matt Kauffman

Matt, those are pretty cool. I like the Keys and the intermontanes. Who'd you get the "intermontanus" from?

Thanks...Terry
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Conserving reptiles by helping to protect habitat...
www.ratsnakehaven.com
www.scenicsantaritas.org

Those came from KJ Lodrigue.

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Matt Kauffman

>>Those came from KJ Lodrigue.
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>>Matt Kauffman

Those are great looking little ratsnakes. KJ has some nice stock...

Terry
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Conserving reptiles by helping to protect habitat...
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Intermonts are almost always much larger than other emoryi and corns. Larger is not really a good description, intermonts are HUGE compared to others.

The Keys and the Intermonts are very neat animals, I have several of each now and they are the favorites in my collection.

dc

What? Daryl, I assume you mean smaller than other emoryis? I beg to differ, the meahlmorrims down my way are almost as big as obsoletas and I've got a 6' corn in here somewhere...
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Todd Hughes

I think he ment they are larger when they hatch. I think emoryi in general are much more robust as hatchlings than any corn snake. You are right though, meahllmorums do get large.

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Matt Kauffman

>>I think he ment they are larger when they hatch. I think emoryi in general are much more robust as hatchlings than any corn snake. You are right though, meahllmorums do get large.
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>>Matt Kauffman

Very cool looking Emory's, Matt. I assume that's a meahllmorum. Do you have a locality on it??

Thanks...Terry
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Conserving reptiles by helping to protect habitat...
www.ratsnakehaven.com
www.scenicsantaritas.org

Yes, I have a pair of 08's from Brazos Island. They are really cool snakes, with some interesting habits. They seem to like spending time in the water bowls and squeezing into crevises so they are kind of sideways. Hard to explain.
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Matt Kauffman

Terry, who else is working with the Brazos Islands besides you? I seem to remember one other person posting about that specific locality...

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Todd Hughes

Here's some not so good pics of the male. I'll try some others in better lighting.

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Matt Kauffman

Matt, that guy has a reverse stripe under the blotches, quite visible to one looking for it, not many have that, a trait I am breeding specifically for! nice.

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Todd Hughes

Do you think there is a chance that the stripes will become more prominent with age?
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Matt Kauffman

I know KJ was working the reverse stripe, but I think what you see is what you get. I caught my big guy as a full blown large adult, I know of another male that was caught last year that was probably 1 1/2 to 2 years old and was already showing a full reverse stripe, well, almost a full reverse stripe, I think KJ has it in his possession now. I bred my male to a locality female and have 19 offspring, this year I plan on putting him with 3 females from his exact locality to see if one of the females carry the gene. Fingers crossed. I'd ask KJ if he knows anything special about your animal. Really, don't see many like that one you have.
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Todd Hughes

I got the meahllmorms from Glades. They were labelled Brazos Island rats and when I asked for more info, they said they came from either a pairing of wild caught adults or a wild caught gravid female from Brazos. But as much as I hate to admit it, I can't 100% confirm that locale. I do trust the guys at Glades though. I got the intermontanes from KJ. Thanks for the info.
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Matt Kauffman

>>I know KJ was working the reverse stripe, but I think what you see is what you get. I caught my big guy as a full blown large adult, I know of another male that was caught last year that was probably 1 1/2 to 2 years old and was already showing a full reverse stripe, well, almost a full reverse stripe, I think KJ has it in his possession now. I bred my male to a locality female and have 19 offspring, this year I plan on putting him with 3 females from his exact locality to see if one of the females carry the gene. Fingers crossed. I'd ask KJ if he knows anything special about your animal. Really, don't see many like that one you have.
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>>Todd Hughes

19 offspring, Todd? Did you get some more from another female? I know I handed over the entire first clutch, which was 15. I also have the second clutch (same pairing) of six.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

my bad, your right, I have 4 others caught from the board line that on a quick box count fell in with the lot.
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Todd Hughes

>>Here's some not so good pics of the male. I'll try some others in better lighting.
>>

>>Matt Kauffman

Yep, he's a good looking guy. Sorta has some bulging eyes...
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Conserving reptiles by helping to protect habitat...
www.ratsnakehaven.com
www.scenicsantaritas.org

Maybe its' inbred, maybe an Island adaptation for night dwelling in the dunes/scrub in a super hot locale, I've seen a few w.c. meahllies like that. I don't know for sure.
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Todd Hughes

>>Maybe its' inbred, maybe an Island adaptation for night dwelling in the dunes/scrub in a super hot locale, I've seen a few w.c. meahllies like that. I don't know for sure.
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>>Todd Hughes

I think adaptation is more likely than inbreeding - I think their eyes get buggier (in general) the further south you go. Cameron County meahllmorum are really buggy-eyed.

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

that is my assumption as well. With wild caughts, one can assume this, but with c.b. ???
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Todd Hughes

>>that is my assumption as well. With wild caughts, one can assume this, but with c.b. ???
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>>Todd Hughes

Well - I haven't noticed the offspring to have buggier eyes than their parents, which are generally sort of buggy anyway. Of course, I have so far only had F1's - I can't remember if you bred the '04 pair I gave you or not, whose offspring would be F2's. I am guessing that maybe intense line breeding might bring out something like bug-eyes (leucistic Texas Rats), but maybe not, as I have never heard of this being a problem with guttatus.

-Toby
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I'd say for you and me, just beginning to get to F2 ans 3 animals it wouldn't show, but maybe someone who was way beyond that it might be possible. I am in agreement with your first assumption.
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Todd Hughes

Matt,

I don't "think" the striping in yours is related to the reverse-striped trait, but I could be wrong. Those light "over-wash" stripes are not too uncommon in meahllmorum, but seem to usually show with age. Here are a couple from my collection, which have over-wash striping.

A big, old Nueces County male with aberrant head markings.

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

This is the female which was bred to Todd's reverse-striped male. The pic was taken a few years ago, when she was 2 - 3 years old, and when she was younger, I did not notice the over-wash stripes - and was disapointed when they did show, as she was a nicely light colored animal before then. She produced two clutches last year, from the reverse-striped male, which were mostly normal looking, but with some interesting aberrancies.

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I was referring to the hatchling size. Intermonts are HUGE babies. I have the non-locality from KJ and one locality pair and some outcrosses. I really like them alot, neat snakes.

Since this was originall a Keys post, here is one of mine.

dc

Wow, that's a beauty. Do you have pics of the intermontanes?
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Matt Kauffman

that's a great looking rat snake!
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Todd Hughes

>>I was referring to the hatchling size. Intermonts are HUGE babies. I have the non-locality from KJ and one locality pair and some outcrosses. I really like them alot, neat snakes.
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>>Since this was originall a Keys post, here is one of mine.
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>>dc
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Really nice, DC. I think this is an underrated snake and also should be a subspecies of guttatus. Just my 2 centavos.

TC
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Conserving reptiles by helping to protect habitat...
www.ratsnakehaven.com
www.scenicsantaritas.org