Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's a really bad pic of a pretty nice snake. These guys have been a lot of fun to work with. Other than their dislike of heat they're pretty easy. His anscestors are from Ohio but he's doing quite well in my basement. They do like to burrow in the substrate so I give them a nice deep layer of aspen. Without it they seem too interested in pushing on the cage walls and that can't be good for their snouts.
John

%
-----
Tim

Thanks, Tim. I liked that juvie pic you had. His colors were quite bright.
John

Good pic of an awesome snake, John. If I had more room and time I would definately work with these guys again.

TC

but you can actually see them in the field. That's even better!
If I'm lucky maybe I'll see an eastern milk. Oh well.

Regards
John

Both the western and eastern foxsnaes are on my wishlist. I didn't realize they have so much color. The first question (several years ago) that I ever posted on kingsnake was if the foxsnake might be a link between pituophis and Elaphe (pantherophis). Thanks to everyone for posting some great pics.

Terry Parks

>>Here's a really bad pic of a pretty nice snake. These guys have been a lot of fun to work with. Other than their dislike of heat they're pretty easy. His anscestors are from Ohio but he's doing quite well in my basement. They do like to burrow in the substrate so I give them a nice deep layer of aspen. Without it they seem too interested in pushing on the cage walls and that can't be good for their snouts.
>>John
>>

as far as the link between fox snakes and pits, there seem to be a few studies at this point that make the fox snakes the direct ancestors of all the pituophis. Not being a systematist or a geneticist I won't comment on my beliefs but I do remember Bart Bruno saying a few years ago that fox snakes and bullsnakes produce a very similar scent from their musk glands.

All I know is they're pretty easy to work with and interesting to watch. Definitely under-represented in the ratsnake community. Maybe because there aren't many morphs happening with them. Or maybe because they're not real flashy.
John

me when I made that original post. He mentioned the musk of the foxsnake and pituophis had the same color, texture and scent.

Terry Parks

>>as far as the link between fox snakes and pits, there seem to be a few studies at this point that make the fox snakes the direct ancestors of all the pituophis. Not being a systematist or a geneticist I won't comment on my beliefs but I do remember Bart Bruno saying a few years ago that fox snakes and bullsnakes produce a very similar scent from their musk glands.
>>
>>All I know is they're pretty easy to work with and interesting to watch. Definitely under-represented in the ratsnake community. Maybe because there aren't many morphs happening with them. Or maybe because they're not real flashy.
>>John

Funny how something small like that sticks in your head. Not that snakes usually smell all that good while I'm cleaning cages but one thing I've noticed is that subocularis has a distinctive smell. To me it actually smells sweet!! How's that for weird. I must be cracking up with all this snake stuff. Next thing I'll be imagining that they smell like licorice!
John

Fox snakes are in the Pantherophis and are thought to be most closely related to guttata. Pituophis is thought to have been derived from an early Elaphe ancestor in the Miocene, and thus is related to Pantherophis, but probably much more distantly than P. vulpina. It's thought by some that fox snakes are of Pliestocene origin, but I have my own thoughts on that

TC

The first question (several years ago) that I ever posted on kingsnake was if the foxsnake might be a link between pituophis and Elaphe (pantherophis). Thanks to everyone for posting some great pics.
>>
>>Terry Parks

I'll have to finally get a pair to work with after seeing more pics.

Terry Parks

>>Fox snakes are in the Pantherophis and are thought to be most closely related to guttata. Pituophis is thought to have been derived from an early Elaphe ancestor in the Miocene, and thus is related to Pantherophis, but probably much more distantly than P. vulpina. It's thought by some that fox snakes are of Pliestocene origin, but I have my own thoughts on that
>>
>>TC
>>
>>
>>
>>The first question (several years ago) that I ever posted on kingsnake was if the foxsnake might be a link between pituophis and Elaphe (pantherophis). Thanks to everyone for posting some great pics.
>>>>
>>>>Terry Parks
>>