Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When is enough, enough. First, Caramel Albino females are unable to lay viable clutches. O.K. my two 06 females have not laid for me yet, bred two years in a row so I don’t know. Except that other breeders who are actually working with the gene say that yes they do lay viable clutches. Next I hear that Lav Albinos don’t have any of the problems that regular Albinos do. WTF! The Albino has been breed since ’92 with no problems even when bred visual to visual. Now we are back to the Caramel Albino. “Caramel Glows are tweaked too. “They are tweaked just like Spiders”. “They do some goofy things too. Those Caramels are the same way. They’ll eat upside down, flip and loop and everything the same way.” I personally own 2.5 Caramels ranging from ’06 to ’09 in age and except for the 1.1 Caramel Spiders I have never seen any strange behavior. Anybody? Where is his info coming from? It certainly isn’t coming from personal experience. Maybe people are scared of getting trashed, but come on. When is enough, enough? When is someone going to call “Bull Shiz”. Or maybe the credibility of the source for these rumors is just so low that no one even pays any mind to them and I am getting worked up for nothing. I don’t know, but I have spent good money on my projects and it’s very upsetting to hear people talk trash about something they aren’t even working with. Damn! These skewed opinions and mis-information are getting as bad as network news.SAD!! Sorry just my Monday morning rant. JP

Updated pic of my CA Spiders They just keep getting better

First off my comments have zero to do with anything but the comments or statements made about Caramels being tweaked. Nor am I jaded about the the market or popularity or any other morph that may replace the Caramel. Get over yourself. I have. Now to the point. The statement was made that Caramels and Caramel Glows are tweaked just like Spider. That Caramels eat upside down, loop and flip. Now I ask since it has been stated that this is info from the some of the biggest breeders in the world, who are they. List names and contact info so that anyone who is interested can contact them and get the info straight from them. If you are going to put info out there based on what you were told then list your sources. If there is a problem lets get it out there. Lets have a discussion about it. But back it up. I am not trying to keep any secrets about the Caramel or any other mutation. Caramel's have a history of producing Kinked babies. I knew that when I bought my first Caramels and it is a risk that I was willing to take. But this is the first I ever heard about any neurological issues. None of the Caramels I have ever seen or held have had any neuro issues, nor do the regular Caramels in my collection. The CA Spiders, well they are Spiders after all and I have seen typical Spider behavior in both the male and the female. So Again I ask. Where is this info about Caramels being tweaked just like Spiders come from. Maybe you can give it another 15 minutes or so.

People would consider taking you seriously, and if your lucky, actually reading what you just typed if it looked like you put even an ounce of effort into making it legible.

I hear paragraphs are pretty awesome.

I had a hard time understanding what you were trying to convey. Something about Caramel albinos, Spiders, and how someone gave you misinformation?

I suggest maybe trying some grammar check, paragraphs, even bullet points.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

next time I will try and do better. Sometimes when the mood strikes me I just let the fingers fly.

Translation: I apologize for allowing my emotions and passion for my animals get the best of me. I appreciate your critique of my grammar and syntax and will make every effort in the future to make my post more readable. Jeff

For starters, i dont own any ball pythons currently and i am a big fan of a certain radio station. That being said, i also cruise every possible forum, youtube video, breeders websites that are out there for information.
As a non ball python guy, i can still see that there are some ball python mutations that have some problems.
You seem to be slating these guys for bringing up the bleeding obvious, and i just dont get it. IMO that radio station is a credit to the industry. If you dont like what they have to say, just dont listen to it!!
It seems that you have produced some incredible animals, ie the caramel spiders and now your worried, that these guys talking bad about them is going to effect your investment. As you stated before, you were aware of some of these problems before, so whats you point?
In some ways, i see that your in a great position, sit on this project while your ahead of everyone else, produce 100s of them, and even if they dont end up going to breeders you would still sell.
I would love a caramel spider, it combines 2 of the most interesting mutations into one. Would i breed from it no, so would wait till the price was exceptable for me to buy, while not expecting a return.
You have chosen to take a risky project, and now dont want to get slated for it. Stand up for yourself, dont try and mock the RR boys, for just giving out what i believe is valid info. Sell your product for what it is, a beautiful creature that WE are luckily enough to be able to own, and just be happy that because a few of the colour/pattern mutations have lined up well, that means its worth more than a CF baby.
Breeding live animals is a privilege. Not a right.

Cheers dave

ps now just dont go crossing it into a Duckbilled super black pastel or RR really will rip it into you
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Dave

11.17 brbs
2.4 crbs

I don't really understand what you said....

Caramel have problem, they kink. Not all caramel do, but all lines have the risk of it at some point.

Spider have wobble problem. And so far, all spider combos also have that problem. I don't see why it would be different with caramel.

Do ultramal have problems ? let time see if they are really different, but it's look like.
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love this world, don't hate it.