Reptile & Amphibian Forums

well i made a post befor about some small worms or caterpillars on my dill plants. I realize now I gave a pretty bad description. I have looked at pictures of swallowtail caterpillars and they are nothing like my caterpillars. see these things range in size from about 1/4 to 1/2 a cm in length are 90 percent black with narrow orange stripes and their legs are very prunounced at the front of the body. if you need any more details or can help me identify this please tell me. thanks

JK

JK-

Well I think Lele has answered your question quite well. I don't see why you would want to risk feeding something that one is wild and you are not sure what it is, two just because you don't use pesticides doesn't mean your neighbors don't, and three if you are not absolutely sure it is safe why risk killing your chameleon. Is a wild insect really worth risking your chameleons health with. I would just stick with the commercially available insects. If you want to feed wild bugs from a safe area here is a link with a list of know safe insects www.chameleonjournals.com/husbandry/bugsoup.html

P.S.-

A picture says a thousand words!
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John @ Chameleon Paradise
1.1 Ambilobe Panthers
1.1 Nosy Be Panthers
1.1 Sambava Panthers
1.2 Rhampholeon uluguruensis

Swallowtails change considerably from each instar (shedding/growth) see this site:www.geocities.com/europeanbutterflies//metamorph/machaon/meta_machaonUS.htm

the front legs are always prominent on moth and butterfly (lepidoptera) cat's (called prolegs)as these are what become the 6 legs of the adult, then there is a space, then 4 sets, then the anal prolegs (that look totally different).

If there are more than 4 sets in the middle it would be a sawfly larva which is often mistaken for a lepidoptera cat. Their size simply means they are still young - probably. Adult Lep caterpillar's range from 1" to 6."

Where do you live? (did I already ask this?)Can you get a photo? Which direction are the orange stripes goin - across or along the body? Does it seem to "rear up" (like a bucking horse) when disturbed?

Regardless of what it turns out to be I would NOT feed it to your cham. But since I am an i.d. nut I want to figure out what it is!

lele

>>well i made a post befor about some small worms or caterpillars on my dill plants. I realize now I gave a pretty bad description. I have looked at pictures of swallowtail caterpillars and they are nothing like my caterpillars. see these things range in size from about 1/4 to 1/2 a cm in length are 90 percent black with narrow orange stripes and their legs are very prunounced at the front of the body. if you need any more details or can help me identify this please tell me. thanks
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>>JK

okay I have decide charm paradise is right and I am not going to feed these bugs to my cham. But I too would like to know what kind they are so I will give some more details. there aretwo stripes going left to right (not head to "tail" They also havefour rows of very tiny bumps or spikes. they have absolutely no green and I have caught several different sizes and they all appear to have the same pattern. I also noticed some tiny tiny (1/2mm) black mites on all the dill with the caterpillar these may be unrelated or they may be babies I don't know. I would post a picture but I do not have a digi cam or even know how to use one so I guess Thats all I can do to describe them. thanks.

JK

The "mites" might be their poop, catipillar poop, expecialy if they are small, looks kind of like small black mites. Just a thought.

OK, here is your assignment: answer these questions and when I get back from the herp show tomorrow (Sunday) I'll get back to you

**where are the tiny bumps located? near head, central, rear?
**are there "hairs" of any sort anywhere?
** does every segment have an orange line?
** is it really orange? or yellow? or red?
**if you took off the bumps would you describe it as smooth? **bristly?
**does it "rear up" when disturbed
**what is the largest you are finding?
**where do you live???
**do you see any others on any other plants? (look around)
** OK, here is the one that you must take a close look. After the first three legs there will be a gap and then four...count those middle ones - are there more or less than four? This is crucial
** and lastly - do you know someone witha a digi-cham????

are the "mites" all clustered together on the stem? They are probably aphids. most folks think of aphids as green, but they come in every color but blue! LOL!

lele

>>okay I have decide charm paradise is right and I am not going to feed these bugs to my cham. But I too would like to know what kind they are so I will give some more details. there aretwo stripes going left to right (not head to "tail" They also havefour rows of very tiny bumps or spikes. they have absolutely no green and I have caught several different sizes and they all appear to have the same pattern. I also noticed some tiny tiny (1/2mm) black mites on all the dill with the caterpillar these may be unrelated or they may be babies I don't know. I would post a picture but I do not have a digi cam or even know how to use one so I guess Thats all I can do to describe them. thanks.
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>>JK

ok lele ,
I willtry to answer all of your questions
where are the tiny bumps located? near head, central, rear?
THERE ARE SIX ROWS OF BUMPS TWO ON EACH SIDE AND TWO ONE THE BACK GOING HEAD TO TAIL THEY ARE MORE DENSE TOWARD EITHER END OF THE THING

**are there "hairs" of any sort anywhere?
NO i CAN'T SEE ANY HAIRS

** does every segment have an orange line?
NO THE ORANGE LINE IS ACTUALLY AN ORANGE SEGMENT WITH A TINY DOT OF BLACK IN ON THE TOP OF IT THERE ARE 2 BLACK SEGMENTS THAN AN ORANGE SEGMENT TWO BLACK ONE ORANGE AND SO ON

** is it really orange? or yellow? or red?
DEFINITELY ORANGE

**if you took off the bumps would you describe it as smooth?
YES EXCEPT FOR THE SLIGHT INDENT BEWEEN SEGMENTS

**bristly?
i THINK YOU MEAN THE CATERPILLAR IN GENERAL AND IF YOU DO THEN NOT REALLY JSUT THOSE BUMPS OR SPIKE THINGS

**does it "rear up" when disturbed
WELL THE ONLY ONE THAT i HAVE LEFT (THESE THING JUST DISAPPEAR) IS GETTING READY TO SHED OR BE IN A COCOON OR SOMETHING CUZ ITS BUTT IS STUCK TO A BRANCH AND OTHER THAN THAT IT APPEARS DEAD.

**what is the largest you are finding?
1/2CM

**where do you live???
LAKEWOOD COLORADO (JUST OUTSIDE DENVER)

**do you see any others on any other plants? (look around)
WELL i AM ANSWERING AT 11 PM SO i WILL CHECK THAT OUT TOMORROW.

** OK, here is the one that you must take a close look. After the first three legs there will be a gap and then four...count those middle ones - are there more or less than four? This is crucial

MAN THIS THING IS SOOOOO SMALL i REALLY DON'T SEE AND OTHER LEGS BUT THE 6 LEGS i DO SEE AND REALLY BIG LIKE 1/4-1/6 ITS BODY LENGTH

** and lastly - do you know someone witha a digi-cham????

THE ONLY PERSON i KLNOW WITH ONE THAT WOULD LET ME USE IT IS MY UNCLE AND HE LIVES 2 HOURS AWAY.

well Sorry if I didn't give the best answers but its late. and i am tired. hey if it dies or something and we can't figure it out I will just mail it to you!lol well I hope we can figure this out.

JK