Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some quick shots of my setup for my baby dragon. (Sorry for the poor quality; I shot these with my phone.) She tends to hide behind the big rock when I am around, so I was wondering if I should remove it. The nice thing about the rock is that it does provide many different basking temps ranging from 95* to 115* as measured with a temp gun. Also, I just removed the paper towel substrate since the crickets were finding ways to hide under it; I will replace it with shelf liner later this afternoon.

Anything out of whack in my setup? The dragon is still very skittish as I noted in my post yesterday. Fyi, she is a Crawley leatherback and appears very dark in the photo. She has been coloring up slightly better when I find her basking.

Thanks again,
Bruce

I dont know if it is the way the picture was taken, but your basking spot looks really close to the bulb. Also, to me, your cage looks really dark. Beardies like brightly lit enclosures.

If your dragon is still just a baby I would make your cage a lot simpler. Babies like to be able to find their food easy and all of the obstacles you have jammed in the cage could be some how stressing her out. The cage is beautiful, I just think it is a bit too much for a young beardie.

That is just my opinion.

Congrats on the baby beardie though!

- John

My first impression is the same as the last poster. That rock looks very close to the bulb. How far away from the bulb is it? I think a piece of slate tile on 2 bricks might be better at this point. What is the wattage of that bulb? and what is the inside height on the enclosure?

Thanks, guys. Some answers:

- The cage height is 18".
- The bulb is 65w (dimmed to around 30%) and is around 4-5" from the rock. I used the rock since its elevation provides a peak basking spot of around 115* and multiple other basking temps while maintaining around 90* on the hot side.
- The cage is actually pretty bright given the basking bulb and the Reptisun 10, which runs along the top of the cage nearest to the glass.

Should I get rid of the rock and just use the log? I can increase the basking temp by not dimming the bulb as much.

Also, given how skittish the baby is, should I allow any hide spots such as the area behind the rock?

Thanks again,
Bruce

I use Par 20 flood bulbs in my enclosures. You should consider them, they will not hang down as much. I don't know if you can find them locally but here is the website I order mine from.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/50-Watt-PAR20-Halogen-Light-Bulbs-Voted-Lowest-Price-and-Best-Service-in-America/

but I couldn't get high enough temps, even with an elevated basking spot. That's what prompted me to use a big rock. Thanks, though. Maybe I have too many vents or something.

Your missing some numbers there. Par20 is a bulb size. I use 50 watt Par20 size bulbs and my small cages that only use one are 2x4x2 tall which is larger than yours.

Well it is definitely a nice looking set up. I have to agree that that basking rock is tall and pretty close to the light. Those type of bulbs put out a serious amount of heat. And, being a baby that is probably not the easiest thing for him/her to climb. Even with my adults i try to use something short and flat that they can sprawl out on.

Removing the paper towels is good. Although they make it easy to clean the cage your crickets and bearded can easily get lost in them. Besides that maybe throw a bright uv light in there and your good to go. Congrats on the new pet, your definitely on the right path.

Nick
C.B. Boids
Bearded Dragon Cages

Thanks, Nick. The little girl has no trouble climbing up, down and around the rock -- she's very speedy! And I have checked the basking temps thoroughly to make certain that there are no spots exceeding 115*. Still, your point is well taken and I'll likely just remove the rock based on everyone's feedback that it is too close to the light.

Thanks again!
Bruce

Dragons can and will bask @ surface temperatures of 130 and higher. If you're truly not exceeding 115 degrees on that hotspot, your little one will be just fine.

I would worry more about the choice of substrate, and the large cage dimensions to "grow" into. You may want to section off half that tank until dragon hits the 12-13" range and place the driftwood closer to the basking rock.

Also, pickup a digital thermometer and place on the wall near the basking spot. It's helpful and important to know the ambient temperatures on the warm end and ALSO the relative humidity contained in the tank.

Not this again. Again, even if BD's did bask at 130 it would only be for very short periods of time which is unproductive. 115 is more than hot enough for a baby dragon, I actually only go to 110 in my baby setups. 105 is better for adults. Higher than that and you have an environment with too high an ambient and too low a humidity.

Thanks. I do have a digital thermometer that measures peak and low ambient heat and humidity. Right now my ambient on the hot side ranges from 90* during the day and 65* at night.

There are several things about this setup that doesn't work in my opinion. The big round rock isn't the most effective. Babies may be able to scamper up and down on it but once your dragon gets older, that rock is going to be less effective. Also, it will put your dragon too close to the basking light. Remember dragons do have their own depth/height even when sprawled out so a bulb that is about 5" above the basking spot may in fact be as close as 3" to the dragon's back while lying down and even closer to its head. Far too easy for the dragon to actually touch the surface of the bulb and get a burn when its this close. The basking spot shouldn't be closer than 6" to the basking spot, though I prefer to keep it at 8" as a minimum to ensure no accidental contacts with the bulb.

The piece of wood is also useless. It is far to narrow to be comfortable for a dragon to bask on, especially after they grow a bit. I see too many cage setups with skinny grapevine basking areas which really are ineffective. Find a wide low piece of driftwood (such as I have in the picture below) which provides plenty of places to bask and sprawl out on and isn't difficult to climb nor dangerous to fall off from for a little dragon.

The picture does make the cage look dark but taking pictures of a lit up cage with a cell phone camera (never understood why people buy cellphones with cameras...since they almost always take such crappy pictures...when its very easy to buy a decent digital camera for under $100 these days--sorry personal pet peeve, not a hit against all those who have cellphones with cameras). If it does look that dark in person, I suggest getting a double florescent fixture running the length of the cage. Put your UVB 10 bulb you have now into it, then a regular full spectrum bulb into the other fixture. (these are the typical ones you can buy for under $5 at any hardware or department store) This will give you alot more light running the length of the cage without increasing ambient temperatures in the cool end.

I think part of the reason your dragon is skittish is it sees you suddenly...as there is no viewing off the sides of the cage and a low traffic office would mean it doesn't see anything for long stretches of the day. It may be a good idea to read in your office, or do some other low movement activity for a few hours a day to get him used to there being somebody in the room. Eventually he will see that the big scary thing isn't a predator out to eat him. Talking to your dragon (as silly as it may sound) will get him to recognize your voice..so you can start talking before you come into the dragon's line of sight...especially when its feeding time. The prospect of food coming when it hears your voice may help encourage him to stay out in the open, anticipating your arrival.

-----
PHLdyPayne

Bdlvr, I really do not understand the reasoning behind basking for less time in unproductive (build on that). A dragon will bask for as long or as little as it needs too. You seem to be under the impression that dragons live to bask when in reality they bask to live.

Providing a wider temp gradient (and humidity gradient) is far more productive then dictating exact temps and humidity. It drives me crazy when you state exact temps (105) and then claim that is all they will need and will use. It seems like common sense to me to provide more choices (wider temps, wider humidity’s) and then simply let the animals themselves decide what is and what is not useful.

I witness my dragons using temps as high as 140 on a DAILY basis. I Also witness them using 100, 105, 110 etc. on a daily basis. Sorry for the rant I just don't understand why we owners should confine our husbandry to such a small box. Thanks.

-Ryan

We've been around and around on this before. In captivity dragons need to bask for longer periods of time to absorb the pitifully small amount of UVB put out by man made bulbs.

Furthermore, I have 27 BD's and have tried higher temperatures. They are useless and provide no advantages only disadvantages. My basking spots are regulated at 105 and the dragons still lie on the outside of the hottest spot except when they first warm up in the morning. In nature the basking temps. would not be 140 when the sun rises. Beardies warm slowly and then hide in cool places when basking temps. get to the levels you describe.

I'm done with this discussion we have been over this time and again. But, I will post anytime someone offers incorrect or unhealthy advise and let the questioner decide who's advise they want to follow.

Choices are a beautiful thing!

Thank you. Yes, I do have a nice digital SLR, but I was on my way out and got lazy. And yes, the cage is actually reasonably bright (just not when shot with a crappy iphone camera!)

I will remove the branch and replace the rock with something lower, wider, and flatter -- perhaps just a large, square brick or something equivalent.

I'll make the changes and report back. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

A Retes stack - check out ProExotics.com for ideas and build examples

Baby dragons are very skittish by nature... they will typically hide, cower, and dash off etc. It will take several weeks or even months of ownership and the dragon will slowly acclimate to you and its enclosure. You can do whatever you wish... no rock, two rocks, flate slate.

At this age some places to hide is best for the dragon.

Your setup looks fine.

The key is consistency. Allowing her/him the option of getting relatively close to the heat source is fine because if it's too hot they will move to a cooler area to self regulate the temps etc. As long as he/she is not too hot. This can be bad. The cool side should be about 85 degrees.

Use a digital timer for lights on and off so it's consistent.

The more you keep switching around the setup and altering things the longer it will take for the dragon to adjust and find its natural sense of confidence within its surroundings.

When they are small they are instinctually hard wired to believe they are prey and are constantly nervous. Some are not this way but most dragons are very skittish and frightful when young.

90% are really sketched out when young... babies.

So just keep it the way it is. If he/she has a cool side and you have a warmer side with temps in the 105-120 range this would be sufficient.

Avoid handling them too much until they are a little older and more adjusted. They need to have consistency (lights on and off at the same times) (feeding times and methods should be somewhat routine) (enclosure setup inside should be the same for the most part.) Consistency when young to build their confidence and allow the dragon to grow.

The setup looks pretty nice actually.

Offering the smaller dragons some rocks and driftwood etc allows them hiding places and will make the dragon feel more secure when smaller.

He/she will grow out of the skittish behavior.

It's a phase.

Sisters:

Aurora:

Ashen:

Ember:

Hey Bruce... was reading through some of your other posts.

Your setup looks pretty decent for right now. Until she starts to grow and will require a larger enclosure.

I heard some people say start interacting and handling her spending time with her etc.

Get her established first. Get things consistent as far as enclosure decorum and time frames for lights feeding etc. 4-5 crickets at a time is pretty good for a baby. Use small small ones... Avoid overfeeding. You could offer veggies one day then crickets the next and alternate days like this. Depends on how fast the bowel movements are coming along.

Feed early enough both veggies and crickets so she has a couple hours worth of heat to digest.

I have had many baby dragons. A couple that were super super skittish.

Do her a favor...Dont handle her for awhile. A couple weeks.

The worst thing you can do is handle the dragon and mess with it all the time. All your going to do is stress it out further and make it more skittish.

Avoid handling it for several weeks until it acclimates properly and has found some confidence being properly settled in.

All you will do with a super skittish dragon handling it all the time is stress it out and delay the acclimation process. I have gone through that with candy cane. A super skittish (when a baby) dragon who would not eat.

It took me a long time of doing exactly what I have prescribed to you. Now he eats like a monster and is sizing up. Only now have I started handling him and hand taming him.

He is gorgeous and well adjusted now.

Takes lots of patience and no handling though with the super skittish ones.

best of luck

Problem is no matter how much you talk to them (as some have said to do) and show it that you mean it no harm by handling it... some dragons are very skittish and instinctually they're hard wired to feel stress when handled or disturbed by what it sees you as:

A predator that wants to eat it.

No matter how much you fondle it, staoke her etc... it ads stress until it gets older and acclimates for several weeks.

Do her right and let her settle in for several weeks. Once she is established then you can start to handle her and tame her.

I have learned the hard way and so will you if this really is an easily stressed super sketchy dragon.

Do not handle her for several weeks... cant stress it enough.

The warm side should have an ambient of about 90. 85 is too warm for the cool side. The cool side needs to be about 75 if possible. Lower is better so the animal will have the widest range of temperatures.