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Growth rates and the implications of....

Tony D Feb 02, 2010 12:52 PM

feed schedules

I have long thought about the growth "potential" of snakes and Frank's post below got me thinking about putting some of those thoughts here to see what you all think.

My first thought is that "growth potential" falls into two distinct categories. In the first sense growth potential refers to the maximum achievable length. This is the terminal length that an animal can achieve. This potential is dictated first by genetics inherent to the species and then to the individual. In other words not all specimens within a population have the same maximum size. If you could plot the inherent potential of every animal in a given population you'd likely see that they all fall within a pretty predictable bell curve around the population average. Some animals will max out smaller and some will have the potential to be significantly larger than their counter parts.

In the second sense growth potential refers to an individual's capacity for growth throughout it's life time. Based on my observations this potential is not constant throughout the life span of the animal. Younger snakes, neonates in particular, have tremendous potential for growth in the first year of life. As snakes ages however their growth potential gradually diminishes until it reaches a base level needed to maintain proper function.

It has also been my observation that animals who are not supported for maximum growth in the first year of life experience a corresponding decrease in overall maximum growth potential. In other words they loose it. This is how the two potentials relate or combine to account for total growth potential. For example, if Frank and I both raise a pair of thayeri picked from the same clutch, at the end of the first year Franks's pair lets call them pair A are 24" each and my pair (pair B) are 18" each. Frank's pair A may go on to grow to much larger adults even if my pair (B), as individuals had the higher inherent potential. If Frank and I had started with the opposite pairs (he had B and I had A) our 12 months results may have been 30" and 16" respectively with the same inputs. I'm not sure if that's clear but that's about the best I can describe it.

The implications here are pretty clear. If you expect to successfully raise animals as breeders you must give enough feed during the early years to sustain appreciable growth otherwise they may loose the capacity to get to the size required to support reproduction. Clearly, for younger actively growing snakes more food is better.

The problem comes in with adults. Here a smaller adult may be seen as still having additional growth capacity when in fact he's just maxed out at a smaller size. Heavy feeding of such a snake is likely to result in obesity. Like wise an averaged sized adult that is assumed to be maxed out may actually have a higher inherent potential for growth and actually loose weight and vigor on a less liberal diet.

In nature selection pressures weed out those animals that are not best suited for survival at any particular time. During years of abundance snakes with low growth potentials may become obese, less agile and subjected to increased predation. During lean years, those with metabolisms that put them at the high end of growth potential may not be able to acquire enough food to support personal growth much less reproduction. In the end its this type of variation within the population that ensures that at least some members will be successful in a wide range of conditions.

As captivity lacks any real selection pressures we have to gauge our animal's conditions individually and sometime make some choices for them. This is particularly true if your feed regimen is at the extremes of what will generally work. Under power feeding regimes, some snakes with low inherent growth potential will undoubtedly get fat. On the flip side if one keeps animals on a slower growth/maintenance track, a specimen that is seen to not be thriving may just have a higher inherent growth potential and metabolism and is simply not getting enough food even though its counter parts are. Viewing such animals as poor performers is in my view is misinformed at best and cruel at worst.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

Replies (4)

Bluerosy Feb 02, 2010 04:08 PM

HooWEEEE!, to much to think about for me. i just feed the dickens out of them the first two years and then keep an eye on them as adults. That means feed them as much as they will eat and every day if they take food. In time you will firgure out how lomng it takes to digest the food and if they WILL take more.

As far as large meals. I have caught a lot of flack here for telling people to feed larger mice to neonates and subadults. But it is real simple. If the mouse is half eaten and left , that means it was too big for the snake. Snake try to eat meals that are too big all the time in natire. We don't have to spoon feed a neonate pinkies for the first six weeks. I try and get the Aflorida kings on fuzzies right after their first pinky or two. Once they take the fuzzy "*BLAM!*" they have a groth spurt. it is amazing to see this for the first time. Next is get them on hoppers and again "*BLAM*" annother groth spurt. there is just something about a more complete meal that causes this.

I have been double clucthing 20" females the first year and all my females put out two clutches. So that means I still have to feed my females like crazy . Males not so much. i don't worry about them because with florida kings the males get bigger and grow faster (..they must have more testosterone than other male snakes )so their potential to get fat is greater. So my males are usually lean. Well at least what i call lean..

Now with other snakes it is all different. That is why i don't subscribe to feeding schedules or a receipe for any snake. Best thing is use your head and hopefully one will develope a "green thumb" for whatever spp they are working with.

yearling female-
I think she was only 9 months old when this was taken:

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varanid Feb 02, 2010 05:20 PM

haha that reminds me...I tried to feed that female hypo a large weaner and she went for it...but couldn't get past the hips and had to let it go. Oh well. Waste of a feeder but the snake wasn't hurt at all, and took two smaller hoppers just fine that same day. She's around what, like 80 or 100 grams now? Guess a 35 gram mouse was just a bit too big. But two 20 gram hoppers were fine.
I like feeding mulitiple smaller items just for that reason...I figure if it's the same net weight it's probably OK and at least I'm not out any feeders they couldn't get down! I'm still learning though...last snakes I raised up were years ago This is a new adventure and rather fun. I like it a lot mor than the old school, feed 'em once a week for 3 years from the 90s...

Tony D Feb 02, 2010 08:33 PM

"i just feed the dickens out of them the first two years and then keep an eye on them as adults"

LMAO I think thats what I said but I think verbally, you were more efficient.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

SDeFriez Feb 02, 2010 08:44 PM

That's pretty much what I do with neonates, feed them all they can take and want for two years. I do the about the same with subadults.

I do the same with feeding. I'm an advocate on get'em off the smaller foods and onto the bigger food ASAP. The growth spurts are amazing, once onto bigger foods!

Treat them all as individuals and work out a feeding schedule that works for them, but try to push the box open more with feeding. Once you know your snakes on how much food they take and how offen, the rest is a breeze.

Scott

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