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I thought it would be a good idea to move this over here.

I have only of this happening to Zonata; but maybe you have heard something about another species What do people on this issue? I have not experienced it, but maybe my hot spots are not hot enough to do this?

Inputs are highly appreciated!

Luc C.

www.VaranusGriseus.com

Well, there's really not much doubt that too much heat will kill viable sperm. The question is at what temps, for what species/ssp. Now I don't have a microscope right now, but anyone that does could conduct their own temperature related experiments on any given male, and see what the slides conclude as far as sperm counts go after a very controlled temperature environment, and a uniform amount of time between given temperatures.

That would be a very interesting experiment for someone to perform on an adult male(or more) that wasn't being planned on to breed this year.

Hopefully someone here might have looked into this already and could give us some of their results.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>I thought it would be a good idea to move this over here.
>>
>>I have only of this happening to Zonata; but maybe you have heard something about another species What do people on this issue? I have not experienced it, but maybe my hot spots are not hot enough to do this?

I mainly breed Mexicana and I treat the females different from the males after brumation. I turn on the heat and feed the females ALOT.....I do not turn the heat on for the males until after copulation......And they usually turn down food for two reasons....No "hot spot" and they usually have one thing on their mind...females.....LOL

I am a firm believer that the males WILL cook there viable sperm if the heat is turned on......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

yes, this is a documented occurrence with not just snakes but with humans as well. My advice, take the males out a couple weeks sooner and slowly, and go no higher that an ambient 70F and, of course, a warm spot upwards of 80-90F if at all possible.

I've invested in a relatively inexpensive microscope purchased at an educational/teacher's supply shop for about 60 bucks. I view the remaining sperm deposits for viable sperm under 10x power ona slide. Not only is it helpful to check, but it may also save from years of wasted time.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Excellent! So Jerry, did you test around with temperatures? Check their limits?

Hey Luc....no, not formally. I simply had lengthy conversations with Bob Applegate and Dave Blody in the early 90's after a few unsuccessful attempts at breeding greeri......lo and behold I kept them cooler, along with a few other modifications, and voila! VIABLE EGGS.
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Ahh OK. So you keep your males in the 80's(hot) and this is work fine, interesting. Do you vary this temperature based on locals? I tend to keep my males without any heat, but I may try providing a mild heat source this year for one of them. Experiment around a bit, ya know.

Luc C.

I do NOT keep my males in the 80's, nor do I with ANY of my zonata. The ambient temps are, on average, around 70 - 75F (room temps or better). I offer a heat gradient ranging from 90F to around 75F via slanted stacks of coarse ceramic tiles. I let THEM choose what temp they want, thus the ever-present discussion of giving snakes options. But no, only the hot spot will get to be 80F or better...general ambient temps never go above 75F and that's on the high end for me......ambient temps are typically around 70-72F......it's a good thing I prefer a cool home temperature as well, so it benefits both, LOL.

capiche??
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

I guess I was not being clear...I meant hot spot. lol

Oh I was ALSO wondering if you prefer frozen/thawed or raise your own mice.

BTW I'm just trying to keep your brain fresh and working...I hope I'm not over tasking it. lol

Luc

Hey Jerry,

Not that i am interested in trying this myself....but how do you get snake jizz on the slide?..lol

Regards,
Kenny

Subsequent to copulation, there is typically a small residual sperm ("jizz" deposit on the floor of the cage. During breeding i use solely paper towels as a substrate so the sample is easier to obtain. I then simply take a plastic spoon and place a very small amount on the slide. Voila!
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Jerry Kruse
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Subsequent to copulation, there is typically a small residual sperm ("jizz" deposit on the floor of the cage.

also referred to as a sperm plug.

"jizz"-..lol!
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Here in So Cal in my area, it seems that the male Cal kings are always the first to be found basking under boards a few weeks ahead of females. I believe that is most often the case.

If sperm has to be so cool, then why are they heating up???

I think, too cool for too long and sperm is not good. Too hot for too long and sperm is not good. But within a range, it is all good. The males know that range, and they bask or cool off as needed to be in that range.

What is that sweet spot range for zonata? Cal kings? Heck if I know.
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Mark

Mountain kings or cal kings? I went hunting in the early spring and couldn't find a single male...? This probably has to do with different locals and the difference in subspecie's behavior that is being noticed.

I will be doing a little experimenting around this year with my Z's...So stoked to pull them out! I don't even have any neonates to feed, put the one I had down for the winter.

Luc C.

Cal kings. But the point is, males bask before the females are up and about.

This is a great project for you. Try a heat pad during the day and then off at night. Warm days, cool nights, just like Spring.

I have heard there are other factors that are not well understood affecting montane kings, whereby fertility goes down over time. Of course this is a husbandry issue, but not well understood.

I had parvs years ago, and the male and female copulated while cooled in Winter, I saw it. But my "cool" is not likely as cold as they get in nature, so what I saw may not be testimony to what they do outside. So many unknowns.

I know a guy who lives in the So Cal mtns who had parvs at one time. He didn't have to do much of anything, they just did well in his house. Goes to show you how the right ambient conditions make things easy.
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Mark

I don't beleive heat kills the sperm if there is a hot spot and the snake can get away from it. Unless...

I am not even sure heat kills sperm in snakes as much as taking your snake out of brumation in Feb... the question i must ask is WHEN do your snakes breed? Do they go a month? Two months? Three months? if there is a prolonged period of 'waking " them and them copulating, lets say April or May. i would advice against waking them up early.

In my experience bringing up snakes in Feburary by turning the heat up to 82F-85F and feeding them like crazy is what may be the problem. Maybe the time it takes from "waking them up", to actually copulating is to long? Or maybe the males don't actually copulate at all because we don't always see them. Maybe they missed their window or are out of sinc with nature (by nature I mean=what is going on outdoors in your hemisphere).

My snakes pretty much breed right out of brumation . I just feed the heck out of them after they start copulating in May. They are in tune with what is going on outdoors.

Here in Georgia in early May we have the trees start to bud and the grass starts to turn green after being brown all winter. This is when my snakes breed, Irregardless of when i "wake them up", THEY STILL WAIT UNTIL THAT TIME when the season changes outdoors. The few times i have tried to "wake them up" in febuary, I had a terrible year. You know, the kind where you complain of infertile eggs, snakes that don't ovulate, full term dead in the egg babies or males that do not get aroused.

What happens then is they either go until late summer before they try copluating again or they are worthless for the entire season.

That is at least my interpretation of a "terrible year".

now before anyone states they live in Alaska, Wisconsin or Idaho or something. My answer is i don't have a clue what to do except wait.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin