Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I have come across a gorgeous albino burm in need of a rescue. A bit of background on the burm, the man who owns him bought him from a pet store and was told he was a male. I don't really trust the pet store to have properly sexed the snake so he may be a she. He was bought roughly a year ago. He is only about four feet in length. The owner hasn't really been feeding him on any kind of regular schedule so he is pretty much fed when the owner both remembers and has the money. He has been fed live mice but when I offered him a prekilled rat he eagerly accepted it with no problem. I recently cleaned his cage out when I was appalled to find out that it hadn't been done in about six months. Along with all the fecal matter I found mold and a spider with an egg sack in the cage. The only heat in the cage is from a heat rock and he also has a broken fluorescent desk lamp on 24/7 (I guess the guy thinks this lamp will suffice for some kind of heat). There's not even a single thermometer in the tank. The snake was taken out and handled about once a month up until about three months ago when the man gave up on handling him after he was bitten by him again. While the owner was handling him one time the snake bit him and instead of calmly removing the snake he jerked his hand away sending the snake flying across the room to smash into a wall and fall to the ground (grrrr..!). As is to be expected from a snake that has been treated in such a manner he is very “aggressive”(I say scared and rightly so). Despite all of this he seems to be in good health although very stressed due to his living conditions.

Now some information about me the rescuer, I am a twenty year old women. I love animals of every sort and was practically raised in a vets office. I currently own nine cats, one english bulldog, eight rats (these are pets not feeders ), one common boa, two toads, one house gecko and one rabbit….and of course I am soon to be the owner of this beautiful albino burm I have been typing about. I have read every thing I can get my hands on about burms so I know exactly what I am getting into. This snake has been through enough without going to another owner who is only getting it for the coolness factor and that will tire of him six months after getting him. I am confident that I can provide him with a wonderful loving home for the rest of his life and I am fully prepared/able to do whatever is necessary to provide him with such.

In just the past few weeks of handling him I have already seen him calming down a bit. Everything I have read and been told about burms sings the praises of there good temperament when handled regularly. I think with regular persistent handling he will learn that I am not out to hurt him, but I would like to get your advice and views on this. It saddens me to think all his human experiences up until now have been so abusive and neglectful. As soon I open his cage he begins hissing and puffing up, but he calms down (well as calm as a terrified snake can get) once I pick him up and he knows it’s me and not his owner. I usually sit in the floor with him, hold and rub him for about 10 to 20 minutes to let him take in what’s going on and calm down a bit, then I slowly handle him and gently move him about. So far he seems to be slowly making progress. Is there any other advice you might have in handling him? And seeing how he is already stressed how much handling is to much or not enough?

This will be my first burm and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for any help. Sorry for the long post

Fairy

It sounds like you are doing a great job so far. I don't know if you have him already or are getting him, but once he is home with you and in a new enclosure let him be for about a week without bugging him for anything except cage cleaning. He should settle down a bit and realize his new enclosure is safe. Make sure you maintain as close to perfect temperature gradient and humidity as possible and keep up the slow non-threatening handling you have been doing. I am sure he will come around once he realizes this is his new environment and home and you are his new owner.

Continue to constantly research and learn as much about your burm as possible as we all never know everything there is to know and the more you learn about him the better you can take care of him. As far as what is too much handling and what is not enough, well do what your doing starting out with short 15-20 minute handling sessions and slowly over time increase it. I'm sure he will come to relax a lot more in time and be a wonderful addition for you.

Keep up the good work.
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Bill

It sounds like this snake has a wonderful home. You are doing everything just right and as the other post mentioned, just make sure that you are providing the proper temps/thermal gradient (80-82 deg F. on the cool side to the mid to upper 80's on the warm end with a localized basking area that reaches 90-94 deg F), humidity (anything in the 70-80% range is ideal but if you live in a dry climate, just bump the mistings prior to a shed cycle and perhaps mist the cage twice daily), etc. Also, you mentioned that you raise rats and have a rabbit. Make sure that they are well away from your burm's cage. If they get a whiff of potential food, you may be in for a classic "stupid feeding error" which is not a pleasant experience (basically, the snake bites you because he smells food and mistakes the owner's hand as food). If this is your first big snake, develop good handling/feeding techniques. When taking out a large burm from its cage, try to make sure that the head is pointed away from you and gently lift the snake at midbody towards you. Because this snake is a little shy right now, you might do better with a snake hook until this snake knows that you are not going to be a threat. Feed the snake in its own cage and offer food via long forceps. The issue of feeding in and out of a burm's cage has been discussed quite a bit (and sometimes heated) but having raised and rescued burms for 20 years and directing a very successful wildlife center, I will only say that feeding a large burm in its own cage is by far and away the most responsible method....period. anyway, the bottom line is that you are doing things slowly but consistently and those will be the keys to your success. Great job.

Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)

This is unrelated to the thread topic. How did you get the job directing the wildlife center? For a snake lover that has to be like, the 'dream come true' of all jobs. And it sounds like Bertha and a lot of the snakes there belong to you (do they?). But do you have any pet snakes at home? Just wondering, because you certainly sound like a reptile lover like myself and how could one resist having pythons and boas at home too, you know? Just curious. Trying to get to know the man behind the occupation a little better. I know you have mentioned indigo snakes before, but I have no clue as to whether they are kept at the center, or a more personal pet at your home.

>>It sounds like this snake has a wonderful home. You are doing everything just right and as the other post mentioned, just make sure that you are providing the proper temps/thermal gradient (80-82 deg F. on the cool side to the mid to upper 80's on the warm end with a localized basking area that reaches 90-94 deg F), humidity (anything in the 70-80% range is ideal but if you live in a dry climate, just bump the mistings prior to a shed cycle and perhaps mist the cage twice daily), etc. Also, you mentioned that you raise rats and have a rabbit. Make sure that they are well away from your burm's cage. If they get a whiff of potential food, you may be in for a classic "stupid feeding error" which is not a pleasant experience (basically, the snake bites you because he smells food and mistakes the owner's hand as food). If this is your first big snake, develop good handling/feeding techniques. When taking out a large burm from its cage, try to make sure that the head is pointed away from you and gently lift the snake at midbody towards you. Because this snake is a little shy right now, you might do better with a snake hook until this snake knows that you are not going to be a threat. Feed the snake in its own cage and offer food via long forceps. The issue of feeding in and out of a burm's cage has been discussed quite a bit (and sometimes heated) but having raised and rescued burms for 20 years and directing a very successful wildlife center, I will only say that feeding a large burm in its own cage is by far and away the most responsible method....period. anyway, the bottom line is that you are doing things slowly but consistently and those will be the keys to your success. Great job.
>>
>>Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center
>>City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)
-----
True "power" is not to be found in social or economic placement or stature, which are merely illusory, finite, frail and brief.
True power is to be found in one's sheer will and personal determination to achieve one's goals at ANY cost and at ANY sacrifice.

Yes Brian, I do have the best job in the world...no doubt about it. And, I cannot take much of the credit for it; that goes to the good Lord himself. I took a big chance in 1997 when I went before our City Council with a hair brain idea of starting a wildlife center at our community recreation center. The center just underwent an expansion which included a new fitness center, dance studios, etc. This left the old fitness center vacant and our board asked the staff (at the time, I was the athletic director....deep down, though, this is what I have been waiting for my entire life) to come up with some innovative ways to use the space. Well, I just completed my M.S. in environmental biology and one of my projects involved the creation of a wildlife center specializing in herps and raptors (both of which are now prominently displayed)....I pulled it out, dusted it off, and presented it to the board. This concept basically took the best of the nature center sector and the zoo sector. My wildlife center features Illinois native herps, non natives (AND YES, THAT INCLUDES TONS OF BOAS AND PYTHONS), venomous herps (another great thrill in running a wildlife center) and raptors such as hawks and owls (my second love next to herps). The rest is history. The council approved my request with teh understanding that NO tax dollars would be used to fund this new major program area...that was scary at first but I believed in myself and the dream. We now reach 20,000 people annually in our various education and outreach programs. I spend much of my summers leading students (high school, college) on field herpetology research trips and projects. We also have an extensive experiential education program which includes outdoor based activities such as canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, and we even run one of the finest teams/high ropes courses in the state. I still pinch myself and still cannot believe I can make such a wonderful living, supporting my family by being a professional herpetologist/curator of a wildlife center and working with so many unusual animals.

Many of the herps displayed at the wildlife center are my personal animals that are on a loan agreement to the city. As long as I am employed, the herps stay at the center. If I ever left, or, retired, I could decide at that point whether to donate the animals, or, take them back. As far as my home "pets", they include my primary focus of Eastern Indigo Snakes (my colony is now up to 3.8) for which I have enjoyed good success and is my ultimate herp passion for which I am also actively involved with their conservation. I also work with olive pythons, green tree pythons, gila monsters, eastern massasaugas and our family has a dwarf caiman who serves as our garbage disposal....oh yea, we have a dog (a rottie) so we are not completely strange (but then again, our living room is shared with an eastern screech owl!). All of my burms and large constrictors are currently at the center but it isn't uncommon to have a straggler around here at home. Alrighty, is that enough info? I don't like to come off as gloating about my job but if anyone knows how much work, dedication and commitment went in to get to teh point I am at now, no one would argue....my family has sacrificed much and I owe them everything for always being supportive. Okay, I'll shut up.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. It has answered a lot of questions that I have had in my mind for a long time now. It's a very interesting and inspiring story. I wish there were more people "out there" like you. The ripples that you undoubtedly make in the ponds of the world unquestionably become tidal waves. Keep up this valuable work as long as you can Rob. Hopefully it will only branch out and grow geometrically as the example that you set is observed and spread. A lot of words come to mind to describe what you do for your local communities, but "Admirable" seems the most fitting. Way to go Rob. My hat is off to you.

>>Yes Brian, I do have the best job in the world...no doubt about it. And, I cannot take much of the credit for it; that goes to the good Lord himself. I took a big chance in 1997 when I went before our City Council with a hair brain idea of starting a wildlife center at our community recreation center. The center just underwent an expansion which included a new fitness center, dance studios, etc. This left the old fitness center vacant and our board asked the staff (at the time, I was the athletic director....deep down, though, this is what I have been waiting for my entire life) to come up with some innovative ways to use the space. Well, I just completed my M.S. in environmental biology and one of my projects involved the creation of a wildlife center specializing in herps and raptors (both of which are now prominently displayed)....I pulled it out, dusted it off, and presented it to the board. This concept basically took the best of the nature center sector and the zoo sector. My wildlife center features Illinois native herps, non natives (AND YES, THAT INCLUDES TONS OF BOAS AND PYTHONS), venomous herps (another great thrill in running a wildlife center) and raptors such as hawks and owls (my second love next to herps). The rest is history. The council approved my request with teh understanding that NO tax dollars would be used to fund this new major program area...that was scary at first but I believed in myself and the dream. We now reach 20,000 people annually in our various education and outreach programs. I spend much of my summers leading students (high school, college) on field herpetology research trips and projects. We also have an extensive experiential education program which includes outdoor based activities such as canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, and we even run one of the finest teams/high ropes courses in the state. I still pinch myself and still cannot believe I can make such a wonderful living, supporting my family by being a professional herpetologist/curator of a wildlife center and working with so many unusual animals.
>>
>>Many of the herps displayed at the wildlife center are my personal animals that are on a loan agreement to the city. As long as I am employed, the herps stay at the center. If I ever left, or, retired, I could decide at that point whether to donate the animals, or, take them back. As far as my home "pets", they include my primary focus of Eastern Indigo Snakes (my colony is now up to 3.8) for which I have enjoyed good success and is my ultimate herp passion for which I am also actively involved with their conservation. I also work with olive pythons, green tree pythons, gila monsters, eastern massasaugas and our family has a dwarf caiman who serves as our garbage disposal....oh yea, we have a dog (a rottie) so we are not completely strange (but then again, our living room is shared with an eastern screech owl!). All of my burms and large constrictors are currently at the center but it isn't uncommon to have a straggler around here at home. Alrighty, is that enough info? I don't like to come off as gloating about my job but if anyone knows how much work, dedication and commitment went in to get to teh point I am at now, no one would argue....my family has sacrificed much and I owe them everything for always being supportive. Okay, I'll shut up.
-----
True "power" is not to be found in social or economic placement or stature, which are merely illusory, finite, frail and brief.
True power is to be found in one's sheer will and personal determination to achieve one's goals at ANY cost and at ANY sacrifice.

On a sidenote,.... You have the SECOND best job in the world. lol. As a private breeder that doesn't even have to get dressed each day or have a commute to drive, I feel that I may just have it a tad better. You still have to put on clothes and drive to work. I just run around in shorts all day and feed beautiful animals.

Of course you know I am kidding here. This is how it is for me, but if one is doing what they want to do and what they like then they certainly have the best job in the world.

>>I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. It has answered a lot of questions that I have had in my mind for a long time now. It's a very interesting and inspiring story. I wish there were more people "out there" like you. The ripples that you undoubtedly make in the ponds of the world unquestionably become tidal waves. Keep up this valuable work as long as you can Rob. Hopefully it will only branch out and grow geometrically as the example that you set is observed and spread. A lot of words come to mind to describe what you do for your local communities, but "Admirable" seems the most fitting. Way to go Rob. My hat is off to you.
>>
>>
>>>>Yes Brian, I do have the best job in the world...no doubt about it. And, I cannot take much of the credit for it; that goes to the good Lord himself. I took a big chance in 1997 when I went before our City Council with a hair brain idea of starting a wildlife center at our community recreation center. The center just underwent an expansion which included a new fitness center, dance studios, etc. This left the old fitness center vacant and our board asked the staff (at the time, I was the athletic director....deep down, though, this is what I have been waiting for my entire life) to come up with some innovative ways to use the space. Well, I just completed my M.S. in environmental biology and one of my projects involved the creation of a wildlife center specializing in herps and raptors (both of which are now prominently displayed)....I pulled it out, dusted it off, and presented it to the board. This concept basically took the best of the nature center sector and the zoo sector. My wildlife center features Illinois native herps, non natives (AND YES, THAT INCLUDES TONS OF BOAS AND PYTHONS), venomous herps (another great thrill in running a wildlife center) and raptors such as hawks and owls (my second love next to herps). The rest is history. The council approved my request with teh understanding that NO tax dollars would be used to fund this new major program area...that was scary at first but I believed in myself and the dream. We now reach 20,000 people annually in our various education and outreach programs. I spend much of my summers leading students (high school, college) on field herpetology research trips and projects. We also have an extensive experiential education program which includes outdoor based activities such as canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, and we even run one of the finest teams/high ropes courses in the state. I still pinch myself and still cannot believe I can make such a wonderful living, supporting my family by being a professional herpetologist/curator of a wildlife center and working with so many unusual animals.
>>>>
>>>>Many of the herps displayed at the wildlife center are my personal animals that are on a loan agreement to the city. As long as I am employed, the herps stay at the center. If I ever left, or, retired, I could decide at that point whether to donate the animals, or, take them back. As far as my home "pets", they include my primary focus of Eastern Indigo Snakes (my colony is now up to 3.8) for which I have enjoyed good success and is my ultimate herp passion for which I am also actively involved with their conservation. I also work with olive pythons, green tree pythons, gila monsters, eastern massasaugas and our family has a dwarf caiman who serves as our garbage disposal....oh yea, we have a dog (a rottie) so we are not completely strange (but then again, our living room is shared with an eastern screech owl!). All of my burms and large constrictors are currently at the center but it isn't uncommon to have a straggler around here at home. Alrighty, is that enough info? I don't like to come off as gloating about my job but if anyone knows how much work, dedication and commitment went in to get to teh point I am at now, no one would argue....my family has sacrificed much and I owe them everything for always being supportive. Okay, I'll shut up.
>>-----
>>True "power" is not to be found in social or economic placement or stature, which are merely illusory, finite, frail and brief.
>>True power is to be found in one's sheer will and personal determination to achieve one's goals at ANY cost and at ANY sacrifice.
-----
True "power" is not to be found in social or economic placement or stature, which are merely illusory, finite, frail and brief.
True power is to be found in one's sheer will and personal determination to achieve one's goals at ANY cost and at ANY sacrifice.

Thanks for all of the nice words Brian; they mean a lot. Some of my greatest rewards are when I see staff who work for me who go on to college or wherever and make an impact in the field of herpetology...makes it all worthwhile.

And I do admire your job too!! Even though I wear shorts on many days to work (we are professional but COMFORTABLE), have a very flexible schedule, work with herps seven days a week, etc. I am always in the public eye and there are times where I would love to just have it where it is me and the animals. You, too, are making an impact in encouraging people to responsibly keep burms and other large constrictors and hopefully, your customers will educate their friends and so on and so forth. Keep up the good work. Rob

Right back at you. It does mean a lot. And yes, I not only hope to make a difference and set examples, I go out of my way to make sure that I succeed in this. As far as large constrictors are concerned, I feel that it is important to extinguish the fear factor, while leaving a healthy respect factor. Fear is misleading and debilitatng, but respect is the solution to all danger issues. I say if someone cannot overcome a fear of the snake, ANY snake, they have NO business keeping them. Fear is a danger to the snake as much as it is to the keeper and has no place in responsible snake keeping.

I am in the process right now of writing a manual of sorts for the care and keeping of rock pythons. It goes beyond a care sheet and delves deep into this particular snake's unique idiosyncrasies of faux aggression and blanket intimidation which is merely a survival instinct and is all so often mistaken as outright viciousness. It is a pure bluff 99% of the time and it's important that folks know how to best deal with it. I feel it is imperative that the general herp keeping world get a better grasp on these snakes and what they do and why before I begin to flood the world with them. Needless to say my own customers will be well informed about these characteristics prior to keeping the animals and will be prepared for it.

I am also planning on attending snake shows in future months and having an additional stall containing a large python workshop of sorts. The idea is still on the table at this time and is not well refined yet, but the general idea is to have a hands on, instructional course that will give folks an oportunity to learn about the big snakes BEFORE they go off and buy them. The service will be 100% free and open to all above a reasonable age, etc. What do you think? Any ideas are welcome.

You may often wear shorts, but you have to wear a shirt and shoes. I don't. I am fancy free and loving it, lol. jk.

>>Thanks for all of the nice words Brian; they mean a lot. Some of my greatest rewards are when I see staff who work for me who go on to college or wherever and make an impact in the field of herpetology...makes it all worthwhile.
>>
>>And I do admire your job too!! Even though I wear shorts on many days to work (we are professional but COMFORTABLE), have a very flexible schedule, work with herps seven days a week, etc. I am always in the public eye and there are times where I would love to just have it where it is me and the animals. You, too, are making an impact in encouraging people to responsibly keep burms and other large constrictors and hopefully, your customers will educate their friends and so on and so forth. Keep up the good work. Rob
-----
True "power" is not to be found in social or economic placement or stature, which are merely illusory, finite, frail and brief.
True power is to be found in one's sheer will and personal determination to achieve one's goals at ANY cost and at ANY sacrifice.

Good to see you on here. I haven't posted here for a long time. Hopefully you have read my post below, if not you may want to. Any how, just wanted to say thanks for all the advice you have given me. I ended up trading my 3 foot alligator for a female corn and now have a litter of 10 fresh hatchlings, which im much happier with then with a gator. And thanks for the advice all of you all about how I should wait on keeping giants. I mean I would probley be killed by now for my stupidity with the way I handle my herps. I mean just the other night I was feeding my ball python and he has been a picky eater, so I held the mouse between my fingers thinking he would slowly grab it... Turned out he was very hungry and decided to grab my finger, he tossed a few coils around it and would not let go. I ended up running a little warm water over him to let go, ended up with 3 teeth in my finger, on going under my nail. It’s now infected and hunts allot, just hate to think what would have happened if it was a 10 foot burm or retic and if I did that... Not only would it be hurting me, but all the other hobbyist around me if it hit the news. I also have decided to work a little harder on school, as I hope you can tell in my posts, and a little harder on keeping the smaller guys. I also have started keeping close records and cleaning cages daily, I never did this before, and I now keep 27 snakes. So any how, thanks all of you all! And you got a very good job Rob!!
Philip